Power

...k in self managing systems, this is another total paradigm shift. And it's more complex I'm learning than just "let's change this manager-subordinate power dynamic." There's so many other power dynamics and relationships to power that are sort of invisible, I think, to many of us. So I know that you've w...more

...other total paradigm shift. And it's more complex I'm learning than just "let's change this manager-subordinate power dynamic." There's so many other power dynamics and relationships to power that are sort of invisible, I think, to many of us. So I know that you've written about, for example, these usefu...more

... more complex I'm learning than just "let's change this manager-subordinate power dynamic." There's so many other power dynamics and relationships to power that are sort of invisible, I think, to many of us. So I know that you've written about, for example, these useful terms of power over and power with...more

...nd relationships to power that are sort of invisible, I think, to many of us. So I know that you've written about, for example, these useful terms of power over and power with. And that's quite a helpful distinction, I think for this topic. Miki Kashtan: Yeah, first of all, I want to give credit to the w...more

...s to power that are sort of invisible, I think, to many of us. So I know that you've written about, for example, these useful terms of power over and power with. And that's quite a helpful distinction, I think for this topic. Miki Kashtan: Yeah, first of all, I want to give credit to the woman who invent...more

...up disappearing. So I'm trying to give her credit. She did this 100 years ago, she was talking about these things well before anyone else was. And so power over essentially, is about me, deciding what is going to happen without involving other people in the decision. It doesn't necessarily mean I don't c...more

...at what I'm doing is for your benefit, that for as long as you are not directly or indirectly participating in deciding things that impact you, it is power over in the sense that it is done to you. And I don't necessarily think that it is hermetically always in all conditions bad. You know, for example, ...more

...clare it necessary on the basis of fear that collaboration is just not workable, rather than on the basis of specific circumstances and criteria. And power with is essentially about honouring the autonomy and freedom of other people. It's not just caring about your needs, in general, it's about specifica...more

...end up having decisions that are less robust, less wise, that fall apart, but you then have to rethink. So that's this distinction that I see between power over and power with. And to make the shift, the shift has to happen in three different places. One is, in the person who holds the structural power, ...more

...ecisions that are less robust, less wise, that fall apart, but you then have to rethink. So that's this distinction that I see between power over and power with. And to make the shift, the shift has to happen in three different places. One is, in the person who holds the structural power, the person who ...more

...n power over and power with. And to make the shift, the shift has to happen in three different places. One is, in the person who holds the structural power, the person who has the possibility of using their power over others. We all have the habit of power over but we don't necessarily have the capacity ...more

...hift has to happen in three different places. One is, in the person who holds the structural power, the person who has the possibility of using their power over others. We all have the habit of power over but we don't necessarily have the capacity to do it if we don't have structural power. So I once wor...more

.... One is, in the person who holds the structural power, the person who has the possibility of using their power over others. We all have the habit of power over but we don't necessarily have the capacity to do it if we don't have structural power. So I once worked with a group of union activists and ther...more

...of using their power over others. We all have the habit of power over but we don't necessarily have the capacity to do it if we don't have structural power. So I once worked with a group of union activists and there was a very profound moment when they became willing to admit that if they had power, they...more

...tural power. So I once worked with a group of union activists and there was a very profound moment when they became willing to admit that if they had power, they would treat management as poorly as management was treating them. So the impulse to power over has been instilled in us, but the capacity is gi...more

...nt when they became willing to admit that if they had power, they would treat management as poorly as management was treating them. So the impulse to power over has been instilled in us, but the capacity is given to us by having structural power. So a person who has structural power needs to transform th...more

...s poorly as management was treating them. So the impulse to power over has been instilled in us, but the capacity is given to us by having structural power. So a person who has structural power needs to transform their habits in order to exercise power with, because otherwise, you will be caught in this ...more

...em. So the impulse to power over has been instilled in us, but the capacity is given to us by having structural power. So a person who has structural power needs to transform their habits in order to exercise power with, because otherwise, you will be caught in this very odd, painful contradiction of whe...more

...but the capacity is given to us by having structural power. So a person who has structural power needs to transform their habits in order to exercise power with, because otherwise, you will be caught in this very odd, painful contradiction of where you want collaboration, and you want things to go your w...more

...on what you want, but that through mutual influencing, something will change. That's the internal change on the part of the person who has structural power. The internal change on the part of the person who doesn't have structural power, is to overcome fear and habit of deference. And there is a risk be...more

...'s the internal change on the part of the person who has structural power. The internal change on the part of the person who doesn't have structural power, is to overcome fear and habit of deference. And there is a risk because if the person with power hasn't made the shift, standing up for what you kno...more

... the part of the person who doesn't have structural power, is to overcome fear and habit of deference. And there is a risk because if the person with power hasn't made the shift, standing up for what you know is true does carry risks. So ultimately, on an individual basis, changing it from below is the h...more

...anging it from below is the highest skill level necessary – to be able to collaborate with someone who isn't in a collaborative mindset, and also has power in relation to you. That is the biggest deal, that is where nonviolence really gets tested. So they're internal changes. There are also changes in th...more

... know, it's sort of free for all. And I think there are some parallels, I could see when I was reading about some of your writing around the myths of power with as well. What are some of these myths and misconceptions in your experience? And how can we address them and look about look at them in a more m...more

... at them in a more mindful way? Miki Kashtan: Yeah. So one of them I already addressed, which is the idea that unilateral decision making or or using power in this kind of way is fundamentally bad, which blocks things from being able to happen in the circumstances that we already talked about. Another on...more

... work out, especially if the sum total of how people want to use the resources that are within the organisation – which is not just money, it's human power, it's machinery, it's everything that is there – if the sum total of how people want to use it exceeds the sum total of the resources that exist, whi...more

...vial task. It's not something you can leave to chance, because if you leave it to chance, information will be clogged, because anyone with structural power will fall back on doing the information on an as needed basis, because of not trusting that people won't take advantage of information that they have...more

...ople won't take advantage of information that they have or in any event, they're not smart enough to be able to use it. And the people who don't have power will keep information to themselves, especially information that is challenging or complicated, because they will be afraid of the messenger being ki...more

...ough knowing what impact we have on others. So those are the five systems. And those systems can be set up, to be collaborative, to be supportive of 'power with', to be supportive of collaborative decision making, to be supportive of empowerment, to be supportive of support for everyone, to be supportive...more

... collaborative decision making, to be supportive of empowerment, to be supportive of support for everyone, to be supportive of attending to issues of power and privilege that come into the organisation from the outside, and are within the organisation, all of that. Or they can completely replicate the ex...more

...ication. We've talked a bit about structures and systems. You mentioned those three shifts that need to happen; within the people who have structural power, the people who don't, and then the system itself. In terms of those first two, in a quote unquote traditional organisation, it might be the managers...more

...ou have the entire universe of the problem. And you can do that when, if you are trying to work out something, and let's say you are in a position of power, and it would be easy to kind of like impose your will. Instead, really inquire as to what's important to everyone, and then you can start making pro...more

...n, then I'm willing to stretch more than if I just know what they want. And that's just how it is. So there's also a way in which if I want to be in 'power with', I need to find a way to let everyone know that they matter. Because that is what will support all of us in moving from digging our heels in ou...more

...ng to check for what's important to you, it's not going to be immediately focused on the solution. "Are you okay to go this way? Especially if I have power? The person will say yes, but if I say, what do you see as the obstacles to implementing this, the person will give me the information. And I'm just ...more

...ools there are teaching about hierarchy - it's going to take a lot of unwinding and unpicking. There's something complex about our relationship with power dynamics, our relationship with taking responsibility for ourselves, our relationships with taking responsibility for each other in a conceptual, hea...more

...Lisa Gill: Yes. You've mentioned power dynamics and, and coercive power a few times. And I know through your experiences at Enspiral and beyond - and in the work that you're doing currentl...more

...Lisa Gill: Yes. You've mentioned power dynamics and, and coercive power a few times. And I know through your experiences at Enspiral and beyond - and in the work that you're doing currently - that's something that you loo...more

...our experiences at Enspiral and beyond - and in the work that you're doing currently - that's something that you look at. What have you learned about power and the nature of power and how we can start to become more aware of it and question it and call it out? Alanna Irving: I think power is some sort of...more

...ral and beyond - and in the work that you're doing currently - that's something that you look at. What have you learned about power and the nature of power and how we can start to become more aware of it and question it and call it out? Alanna Irving: I think power is some sort of law of nature. It's lik...more

...u learned about power and the nature of power and how we can start to become more aware of it and question it and call it out? Alanna Irving: I think power is some sort of law of nature. It's like, water - something that exists and has certain properties that you can observe. And sometimes you can channe...more

...ou can observe. And sometimes you can channel it and it tends to pool in certain areas, or it reacts in different ways to different environments. But power is not something that we can ever get rid of. Every human group inherently has power dynamics. So I think the question we then have to ask is how ar...more

...s, or it reacts in different ways to different environments. But power is not something that we can ever get rid of. Every human group inherently has power dynamics. So I think the question we then have to ask is how are we going to relate to that? What does that mean to us? What are we going to do with...more

...cs. So I think the question we then have to ask is how are we going to relate to that? What does that mean to us? What are we going to do with those power dynamics? How are we going increase our skills for observing them, understanding them and talking about them - and figuring out if they're working fo...more

...g for us the way we want them to, and how we might go about changing them or improving them. There is sometimes a knee-jerk reaction - a rejection of power itself. But I think that's a little bit self defeating, because it's inescapable. In fact, if we try to escape it or avoid it - or don't want to look...more

...it self defeating, because it's inescapable. In fact, if we try to escape it or avoid it - or don't want to look at it or talk about it - that's when power can get extremely dangerous and quite dark in ways that we don't always intend. That's when you can get these unspoken rules, hidden hierarchies and ...more

...et extremely dangerous and quite dark in ways that we don't always intend. That's when you can get these unspoken rules, hidden hierarchies and weird power dynamics. I think everybody's probably had that experience and it just feels really uncomfortable. And you're not sure what's going on, or you know t...more

...hat experience and it just feels really uncomfortable. And you're not sure what's going on, or you know that somehow you don't have access to certain power, and you can't talk about it because it's not explicit. So I just think it's a constant process of surfacing - 'what's going on with our power dynami...more

...ertain power, and you can't talk about it because it's not explicit. So I just think it's a constant process of surfacing - 'what's going on with our power dynamics?' or 'is it working for us?', is almost the best you can do. And from there you can build certain processes and try to make certain things e...more

...tion and self awareness and other awareness, and just being in relationship and constantly reflecting is the only way I have found to really approach power that feels genuine....more

...ost charismatic communicator every time who makes the decision? Or are we defaulting to unanimity? When actually what we should be doing is devolving power so that certain people are able to run ahead without everybody agreeing? I think that's a useful skill and vocabulary to develop....more

...ke, 'Can this company just give money to this other company?' And they said 'Oh, no, generosity is not in the text'. So out of that I really felt the power of money. I think a lot of people feel like money is very powerful. But it's kind of like 'money's out there and it's having power over me' sort of f...more

... I really felt the power of money. I think a lot of people feel like money is very powerful. But it's kind of like 'money's out there and it's having power over me' sort of feeling. I tasted an inverting of that - like, 'Oh, money, we can control how we want to use it, we get to say what the dynamics of...more

...bout how they might approach money in that sense? How can you open the kimono?What are your thoughts? Alanna Irving: Money has a lot of psychological power for many people in positive and negative ways. Talking about money is somehow this massive shortcut to talking about all of these very deep, importan...more

...ality, and the hardest thing for them was not understanding statistical process control or pareto analysis. And the hardest thing was they had pushed power from supervisors down into front level employees, given these people the ability to stop, production lines and to become problem solvers. That was a...more

...t level employees, given these people the ability to stop, production lines and to become problem solvers. That was an enormous step - to yield your power. In a way, the job description of every manager is to control - that's the synonym, to manage means to control. And your value is demonstrated by mor...more

...better way - there's no two or three EVPs SVPs, or somebody else who can say like, we're not going to do that. And so you're really consolidating the power of people who in most organisations have very little power, but when you put them together, they have enough. I love that idea of not starting or ins...more

... else who can say like, we're not going to do that. And so you're really consolidating the power of people who in most organisations have very little power, but when you put them together, they have enough. I love that idea of not starting or installing practices first, but looking at principles and expl...more

...ations. Because the only way you can be sure you're having a conversation about leadership is to start with an assumption that you have no positional power. You have no authority, you have no title, you have no resources, and you have no power to sanction. And if you start with that, then you can ask - a...more

...ip is to start with an assumption that you have no positional power. You have no authority, you have no title, you have no resources, and you have no power to sanction. And if you start with that, then you can ask - alright, what can you get done? Because now we're talking about your capacity to lead, to...more

...bring a coalition together, to vision cast or whatever you need to do to move a group of people from A to B. But as long as you confuse bureaucratic power with leadership, it's very difficult to know, are we having a conversation about your capability as a leader or your ability to wield the big stick o...more

...p, it's very difficult to know, are we having a conversation about your capability as a leader or your ability to wield the big stick of bureaucratic power? As anybody can tell you who's been in organisations at all, there are a lot of people in leadership positions who are really not leaders. And they w...more

...e only way you really know whether there's a leader in this job is whether people get to tell you that or not. Otherwise, you'll have people who have power, but really have never developed the skills of leading. So I think we're going to have to rethink our leadership curriculum. It's just ironic to me ...more

...arning to do from an employee perspective, because we've been so trained to be sort of passive and compliant. Gary Hamel: Everybody says I want more power. But I'm not sure that's always the case - because with power comes accountability. So I think of - for example - this Chinese company, Haier - where...more

...so trained to be sort of passive and compliant. Gary Hamel: Everybody says I want more power. But I'm not sure that's always the case - because with power comes accountability. So I think of - for example - this Chinese company, Haier - where they take an organisation of 70,000 people, and they divided ...more

...lity is that under the right conditions, I think it is true for most people. Because most of us in our private lives are not willing to give a lot of power to somebody else. We don't let somebody else choose what clothes we wear, or what cars we drive, or what movies we see. And couples and partners will...more

...y, all of this is important. Otherwise, you may say you're free and people are going to say, I'm not so sure. You meet people who are willing to give power away. And you also need people who are willing to pick up that power. Now, there's a very interesting experiment that's been going on over the last c...more

...eople are going to say, I'm not so sure. You meet people who are willing to give power away. And you also need people who are willing to pick up that power. Now, there's a very interesting experiment that's been going on over the last couple of years at Michelin - you know, the 100 year old industrial co...more

...ple who might have 10 to 20 people working for them - and he said, 'would you be willing to do a year long experiment where you're going to give your power away?' And he found 39 individuals who said, 'yeah, let's try that'. And purposely, they didn't start out with some very detailed model. It wasn't a...more

...hat's now spread. They're doing it at a much larger level. But it started with learning on both sides - the individuals saying yeah, we can take this power. And if we sometimes screw it up, that's fine - we're going to learn our ways with this. And same with the leaders themselves. So, in any organisatio...more

...ottom-up' transformation, (if I can say that way, which is also a little bit outdated). But in a sense, the people who have had traditional roles of power, like managers, yes, there's some inner work for them to do in terms of being open to other perspectives and taking responsibility for their power. B...more

...of power, like managers, yes, there's some inner work for them to do in terms of being open to other perspectives and taking responsibility for their power. But there's also a huge piece of work for people who haven't traditionally had power to do in terms of learning and practicing to make decisions, to...more

... open to other perspectives and taking responsibility for their power. But there's also a huge piece of work for people who haven't traditionally had power to do in terms of learning and practicing to make decisions, to ask for when I need, to challenge things, to question things, to create proposals, to...more

...directions happen can you have a truly self-managing organisation or a truly teal organisation. That shift needs to happen in both of those different power dynamics, I think. Yes, again, totally agree with you....more

...ls, there must be somebody holding this energy, holding this field now. And who is it? And then who, who are the people? What is the line in terms of power or authority and responsibility in this particular body? And who are the people there? And very often, these people are not necessarily in these mana...more

...el is extremely dangerous for the people that are working in it because it tends to lead to a compromise where everybody is compromising on their own power and authority and responsibility for the sake of what we would like to believe could be shared, but I have lots of evidence to show now that you can'...more

...of evidence to show now that you can't really share these aspects. But it's dangerous because people tend to as I say, lose themselves and lose their power to what I would now call, 'a phantom', which is in their own minds, and in a sort of collective mind but has no basis on the ground in reality. So I ...more

...fterwards, I'm the first one to say, "Well, okay, I'll ditch my story, we'll go with a better one." So as I say, if shared responsibility in terms of power, authority and responsibility, if somebody comes with the evidence, this is working, and their story is working better than the source work, I'll be...more

... create elsewhere. So the decision making; you're 100% responsible for what you have sourced so on the other side, you have this 100% decision making power. It's the other side of the same coin. Now, coming to sociocracy and so-called 'joint decision making', I have a different context of what's happeni...more

...on't gush through anybody else, because they're related to you having created this particular thing. So that's why I say you can't then delegate this power or share this power with somebody else, because then nobody else is getting the information and the information to actually be able to take a decisio...more

...ybody else, because they're related to you having created this particular thing. So that's why I say you can't then delegate this power or share this power with somebody else, because then nobody else is getting the information and the information to actually be able to take a decision. And I have so muc...more

...Lisa Gill: There is so much that I want to unpack in what you've just said. But I'm going to go with what's current, which is this nature of power. Many people don't like the word empower or empowerment, because it seems to imply that someone can choose to give it and they can choose to take it ...more

... of course. But I remember when I saw you speaking at the sociocracy conference that was one of the things I wrote down when you said you cannot have power with without power within. I wonder if you could unpack that for us a little bit more because I find that this relationship to power and self and oth...more

...emember when I saw you speaking at the sociocracy conference that was one of the things I wrote down when you said you cannot have power with without power within. I wonder if you could unpack that for us a little bit more because I find that this relationship to power and self and others is so, so trick...more

... you cannot have power with without power within. I wonder if you could unpack that for us a little bit more because I find that this relationship to power and self and others is so, so tricky, and deep and challenging, and I feel like it is a real learning edge for me. Bernadette Wesley: That is a big q...more

...g? How is that still holding me back from really taking a stand for what is mine to steward and connecting it with purpose? That, for me is where our power lies. It's the two steps of clearing the things that are blocking us and holding us back in really effective ways. Not just affirmations, or trying ...more

...pigenetics, saying that the internal and external environment can determine what genes turn on and off. In The Biology of Belief, he talks about this power of thought and how that influences what we're creating. And what is the cost? He says that 95% of our actions and behaviors are dictated by the subc...more

...s drop in, let's drop into the heart'. And what would happen then. If nothing else to create that field of safety in my own body, bring me back to my power so that where I have choice to be in my power, I prefer that. I want to create a world in which that's real. And that's happening more and more. So I...more

...t would happen then. If nothing else to create that field of safety in my own body, bring me back to my power so that where I have choice to be in my power, I prefer that. I want to create a world in which that's real. And that's happening more and more. So I want to use this for myself as much as possib...more

... with those parts and help them find a new job. This is part of the shift that I'm seeing and part of the work to be done, and that comes back to our power. When we understand our own internal system, our own internal complexity, I call it VUCA squared. We are a VUCA system - ourselves as a human being ...more

...le in this new world that I want to live in. Well, then my self with a capital S can be in charge of the whole system, and then I'm in my co-creative power. And that's where I want to be. ...more

... really plays that role very well, because he is self-confident. And he certainly has a lot of power within the organisation. I think he’s used that power to, as Simone says, build an organisational architecture and style, that really expects people to step into the entrepreneurial void at the frontline...more

.... And, and also like people like Jan Carlzon from Scandinavian Airlines back in the 80s and 90s, saying, “The people closest to the customer need the power to make decisions” and so on. And it never really took off. And so, perhaps, it will be an example like Haier — this kind of Chinese, incredible sort...more

...h that trouble. But I think that the other thing that has happened at Haier is that Haier has not only changed the organisational structure, and the power within the organisation, but they’ve also changed the distribution of wealth. So at Haier the way that value is distributed makes it economically wor...more

...I had on the podcast, and she talked about that as well as structural shifts, there -needs to be two shifts within. And one is in the people who have power — or have previously had power — in this case managers. And the other is in people who don’t have power — or historically haven’t had power — you kno...more

...alked about that as well as structural shifts, there -needs to be two shifts within. And one is in the people who have power — or have previously had power — in this case managers. And the other is in people who don’t have power — or historically haven’t had power — you know, employees. So like you said...more

...fts within. And one is in the people who have power — or have previously had power — in this case managers. And the other is in people who don’t have power — or historically haven’t had power — you know, employees. So like you said in that in that example, if employees — which is an outdated word even i...more

... who have power — or have previously had power — in this case managers. And the other is in people who don’t have power — or historically haven’t had power — you know, employees. So like you said in that in that example, if employees — which is an outdated word even in itself — but you can give permissi...more

...nating that power, or power-relationship, such that all individuals, all employees have some well-defined basis and source of authority and source of power in the organisation that cannot be superseded or trumped by another individual simply because they are higher in rank or higher in the organisational...more

...ples of self-management, and reinforce the shift in authority. Because I think what we do know from research in organiaations and management is that, power, even once it's been formally decentralised, has a very very natural and strong tendency to recentralise informally or formally. So, you see that in ...more

...ion that's trying to adopt a self-managing structure. And so these structures and processes can also help to reinforce and mitigate that tendency for power to recentralise....more

... was holacracy which is obviously a self-management system designed to help create those structures and processes so that we don't slip back into all power hierarchies. But we'll come back to holacracy in a moment, because I wanted to talk about leadership as well, because I saw that you have been leadin...more

...because they had a role that was responsible for that), versus cultural values. So the organisation I studied, culture was a very prominent source of power before such that, that guided many people's day to day work. So, doing what's right for the customer, it led people to feel like, "okay, we're going ...more

... to do this because it's right for the customer". But after they adopted holacracy, the feeling was that those cultural values lost salience and lost power in the organisation, because the formal roles really became the kind of primary source of attention and authority in the organisation. So just to say...more

...face - these interactions could happen over long distances and in relatively short periods of time. I think there's research that has highlighted the power of site visits and face to face interactions for facilitating these types of dynamics, which, of course, I think can be very powerful, and so we're n...more

...mping up against the business challenges or fears that business just brings up in people in hitting performance targets or whatever that is. And then power over people or we approach a situation from fear that creates negative feedback, and then if they're afraid to give that feedback or have that conver...more

...in control. And so my interest in moving into self-management was actually addressing the scariest thing for me, which is to give up my control on my power to the collective. But then whenever I see someone even theoretically subverting or challenging these Teal practices, I get triggered, and I get afra...more

...hierarchical, caste type system for many generations. So the deference that generally the people in India have for their parents and for controlling power structures is very different than we have here in North America. So yeah, it's very different and I think India's version of Teal will be a different...more

...ssing the collective intelligence, and as long as those really strong voices realise like me: "Okay, I've got to tone it down. I've got to subvert my power. I've got to be careful about people who give me too much authority." As long as that collective intelligence comes to the surface, we can't make any...more

...hing we can do: we can teach people equal talking time we can, we can create an environment of psychological safety, we can encourage people who have power over to tone it down, and we can encourage people who experienced power under to step up and to create safety for them when they do that an expectati...more

...eate an environment of psychological safety, we can encourage people who have power over to tone it down, and we can encourage people who experienced power under to step up and to create safety for them when they do that an expectation for them to do that - that we can do. And then what happens in these ...more

...it was really interesting for me in studying anthropology and history - wherever humans have been, we first start as self organised communities where power is distributed, women are, you know, in power, but there's no sense that it's a matriarchy, because power is so distributed. And the moment - well, a...more

...nthropology and history - wherever humans have been, we first start as self organised communities where power is distributed, women are, you know, in power, but there's no sense that it's a matriarchy, because power is so distributed. And the moment - well, after some time, when we shift into a, when the...more

...t start as self organised communities where power is distributed, women are, you know, in power, but there's no sense that it's a matriarchy, because power is so distributed. And the moment - well, after some time, when we shift into a, when there's more of us, we're more static. So we're not nomadic, an...more

...ur DNA. Not necessarily the people's DNA, but the the progress of a civilization always leads to increased hierarchy, increased bureaucracy, and then power going more and more into fewer and fewer hands. And then periods of destruction follow that. And fundamentalists arise. And fundamentalism is part of...more

...e into fewer and fewer hands. And then periods of destruction follow that. And fundamentalists arise. And fundamentalism is part of that also. So all power is given to the gods, whoever, whatever they are. And then they're petitioned to save us with enormous levels of sacrifice of people, usually. So I t...more

...e are still dividing themselves. I mean, the other thing to identity politics is organisational identities, which people still want to hold on to the power and status of their own organisation, rather than just work together. But, that's, those are all the negative dynamics. But the positive dynamics are...more

...ense of learned helplessness or powerlessness that people often feel - it's the same challenge, right? How do we help people to see that they do have power, that they do have choice? Margaret Heffernan: The answer is, we don't help them. We find ways to work with them. Because nobody trusts us anymore. ...more

...ry empowering place to end. Margaret Heffernan: Well, I hope so. It's very hard. I'm not even sure I believe in empowering people. I think they have power. I think all of us have power. The question is deciding to use it....more

...argaret Heffernan: Well, I hope so. It's very hard. I'm not even sure I believe in empowering people. I think they have power. I think all of us have power. The question is deciding to use it....more

... was getting more consciousness and now I'm happy to say that I have developed a level of consciousness where I can see what I do. So now I have more power to choose. Now I am a good listener. And I became more responsive. And it changed my behaviour so much, that it became easier for me to bring the res...more

...of putting it: to separate identity and role. Because I think that's what many people are afraid of, as you say, to sort of let go of having ultimate power, to let go of being the hero, if you're the CEO is scary and feels like a loss for people sometimes I think. But if you keep role and identity separa...more

...makes us fearful, you know, how could we engage with these questions? And, and to me, these are really juicy questions. And I believe that beyond the power structures, some of the things that that hold us back are, for one, the sense that we need to have an answer. When I engaged these these 15 CEOs, on...more

... Gill: Yeah, and I’m curious: what is your sense of what’s needed in order for us to be able to sit with that question? Because I agree with you that power structures is only one piece of it, but I think even in self-managing organisations… sometimes it seems almost like we need guardrails, you know, thi...more

...er around: what's your personal purpose? Why is this interesting and important to you? And I also think if you aren't someone who has decision-making power, if you're in the middle of an organisation, I still think that you have some power and agency to do some trojan mice experiments, and that's why I l...more

...u? And I also think if you aren't someone who has decision-making power, if you're in the middle of an organisation, I still think that you have some power and agency to do some trojan mice experiments, and that's why I love Liberating Structures; that you can always influence things and be intrapreneuri...more