Transcripts

Learning

Ep. 45 Amy Edmondson on psychological safety and the future of work

...ch a good word for it. It’s a journey that started with an accidental finding. I didn’t set out to study psychological safety. I set out to study the learning organisation. I wanted to know what you could do to make organisations better at learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate ...more
...t out to study psychological safety. I set out to study the learning organisation. I wanted to know what you could do to make organisations better at learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate in a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning ...more
... learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate in a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning — we learn from mistakes, it’s one of the core mechanisms of learning for human beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisatio...more
...n a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning — we learn from mistakes, it’s one of the core mechanisms of learning for human beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisations as well. So I came in to study… [and] I realised intuitively that ...more
... beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisations as well. So I came in to study… [and] I realised intuitively that where the learning happens is in teams because teams are doing the work. There’s some work, of course, that’s still done very much by individuals working alone, but an ...more
... but ultimately drawing on older literature I decided it was really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to st...more
...ly drawing on older literature I decided it was really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to study it in oth...more
... really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to study it in other contexts: in manufacturing, in service, not ...more
...f psychological safety that has since been used in hundreds of studies, in and out of healthcare, and finding that it has all sorts of connections to learning behaviours, but also to performance… And so, it’s been a kind of meandering journey and when you publish a paper that gets attention, other people pi...more
...LG: Yeah, that’s really helpful. Circling back to what you started talking about with your original interest in learning organisations… for me, a really useful model you have in your book “Teaming” that I share with people all the time is this four-box model about how t...more
...really useful model you have in your book “Teaming” that I share with people all the time is this four-box model about how to create what you call a “Learning Zone”. Because I think, especially when I‘m talking to people about exploring more self-managing or Agile ways of working, sometimes the misconceptio...more
...ortable.” I want people to be willing to take risks, but I don’t want people to be in the Comfort Zone, is one of the boxes in that model. And so the Learning Zone, as you point out, is the zone where you feel both very motivated to do a good job — and that means you probably care; maybe you care about the ...more
... in a volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous world. Things will go well and not well at different times, and not always in a predictable way. So the Learning Zone, it’s a little bit like the research by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi who talked about ‘flow’, where you have this sense of the challenge and your abi...more
...nventing Organisations’, and there are some very profound case studies in there. The self-managing organisation to me as a construct is much like the learning organisation in that it’s huge. It’s huge, it’s important, it’s aspirational, it’s what so many of us want. So those are huge aspirations, and psych...more
...l safety is just this sort of psychological, interpersonal experience that I would argue, it’s hard to have a genuinely self-managing organisation or learning organisation without some level of psychological safety. But they’re very different research targets — one has got lots of moving parts, you’ve gotta...more
...l find it unhelpful. That’s OK. Each and every one of us must be willing to learn from our missteps as well as from our successes. This is gonna be a learning process. Someone decides: “OK, I’d like to exercise a little more leadership at work, make a bigger difference for others, and for the task at work.”...more
...ities — psychological safety, and motivation and accountability — it’s both those things, not one or the other, that really creates an environment of learning and high performing teams. And that starts with thinking about more than just myself and seeing myself as being responsible for what shows up around ...more

Ep. 57 Nand Kishore Chaudhary from Jaipur Rugs on love, collective consciousness and self-management

...arted growing like a wildfire. To support the rapid growth of the business I had to hire experienced professionals but all that put me upside down. I learned that knowledge is power. But too much knowledge and knowledge gained without practice doubles ego. Practitioners sometime get their skills without ha...more
...without practice doubles ego. Practitioners sometime get their skills without having the knowledge to break the ego of our professionals. I started a learning initiative, which we named Higher School of Unlearning. We made the professionals work with our older, uneducated people in different departments to ...more
... the business processes. I also took the challenge to teach them the basic fundamentals to manage the business and people like ours, which they never learned in schools and colleges. We also worked on the philosophy, 'finding yourself through losing yourself'. The more I lose myself, the more I find myself...more
...n schools and colleges. We also worked on the philosophy, 'finding yourself through losing yourself'. The more I lose myself, the more I find myself. Learning, unlearning and relearning is a continuous process and it brings the childlike innocence, which is important for the business to follow this in an or...more
...ou're really interested in taking it to the next level in terms of self-management. And really kind of decentralising. What is important to you about learning more about this and helping the organisation evolve in that way? NK Chaudhary: The problem started when I established the head office in 1999 in Jaip...more
...hen you and I spoke before you shared that. And you just mentioned there again, as well, that one of the challenges is in the head office, and you've learned a few lessons I think about hiring people and realising that perhaps the mindset change isn't possible or that they're too ingrained. So as you grow ...more
...ng self-management principles to fulfil the purpose of their organisation even more strongly? What advice would you give them in terms of what you're learning so far? NK Chaudhary: Find yourself through losing yourself. Because the more you lose yourself, the more you will find yourself. The problem is not ...more
...Lisa Gill: I think this is something that I'm learning more and more that if we really want everyone to flourish and create an environment based on self-management principles, it's not going to happen by ...more
...se what we see, what we hear, what we listen to, is only 10 to 15%. And 80% is hidden in the iceberg. I also went to see Otto Scharmer in Boston, and learned about Theory U and then I started working on my own iceberg. And that changed me a lot. Because what I found was that whatever we do, we work very ha...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah. I'm curious what else you've learned because I'm sure many people listening are perhaps even envious that you've spoken to some of my big heroes like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, y...more
...ople listening are perhaps even envious that you've spoken to some of my big heroes like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, you mentioned what you've learned from Otto Scharmer, for example. Are there other key lessons that you've learned so far about self-management that you think would be useful to share...more
...es like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, you mentioned what you've learned from Otto Scharmer, for example. Are there other key lessons that you've learned so far about self-management that you think would be useful to share? NK Chaudhary: I think when I meet all these great, great people, I see they are...more
...ary: I think when I meet all these great, great people, I see they are highly conscious people. And the world is moving towards consciousness. What I learned from them is how everybody can realise that when we are driven by the unconscious, this is in autopilot mode. So how to break the autopilot mode by b...more

Ep. 26 Buurtzorg and the power of self-managed teams of nurses

...ing for more than ten years (they've since split into multiple teams). So it's really interesting to hear all of the insights and all of what they've learned over the years about communicating, giving each other feedback, what's really rewarding, what's really challenging. And I think probably my favourite...more
...Lisa Gill: So how do you do that? Have you learned something about how to create that safety in a team so that that communication happens? Jolanda: Yeah, well, we, we have a course, a training on how ...more
...ve made a mistake with someone in the past and it didn't feel right but we wanted to give her a chance. Chila: But it didn't work out very well so we learned from that!...more
... They were only a pain in the ass. Sorry! Lisa Gill: No, I love it! [Laughing] It's great. Chila: You can go edit it. Jolanda: You get progression of learning how you have to deal with problems. And you find out things that you didn't think you could do. Marian: And you stimulate each other. "You can do it!...more

Ep. 54 Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero on Haier and the entrepreneurial organisation

...interesting to see those people who haven’t come up in that world, fresh from the source, so to speak, what challenges they’ll face in unlearning and learning this new way. B Fischer: So, one of the things is for sure — the people who run the micro-enterprises, quite a number of those people have come from...more
...nal kind of management bureaucracy, or they’ve come from some other context, which is so different that they’re not kind of porting over any of those learned habits. But for those who join Haier, who have had that kind of context, I just wonder if they get any support. What sort of training or are there pa...more
...I think it’s extraordinary. -L Gill: Yeah, and on that note thank you to you both for sharing so generously your time and your ideas and what you’re learning and…I learnt a lot from this conversation so it’s been really enjoyable for me to have this case study brought to life by two people who have really ...more

Ep. 55 Frederic Laloux with an invitation to reclaim integrity and aliveness

...ith people listening to this podcast now in terms of something that might help them on their journey? A step they could take, some wisdom that you’ve learned? F Laloux: There’s two different questions in one, I think. You know, in terms of the practical things, I think people could go in very different di...more