Transcripts

Leadership

Ep. 54 Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero on Haier and the entrepreneurial organisation

... aspects? S Cicero: Well, it’s hard to just talk about one thing. For me personally, I think Haier is a special organisation probably because of the leadership that it has. Not just when you compare it with other traditional Western organisations, but also in China. This mix of thinking that Zhang Ruimin has...more
...ings. And so for me, it’s a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to talk about how you change large, complex organisations in mature industries. And the leadership. The leadership, of course is extraordinary. So those two things, I think are what differentiates. ...more
... me, it’s a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to talk about how you change large, complex organisations in mature industries. And the leadership. The leadership, of course is extraordinary. So those two things, I think are what differentiates. ...more
...L Gill: Thank you. Let’s, let’s talk a little bit about the leadership then because I mean, Zhang Ruimin has a legacy already at Haier — 35 years or so I think he’s been in the organisation — and this is now the sixth ev...more
...e’s been in the organisation — and this is now the sixth evolution or reinvention, I believe, of the organisation. So, it takes a very unique kind of leader I think, to navigate that and I’ve read and heard about him being this incredibly well-read person but he also strikes me from just the videos that I...more
...hen testing them, putting them to work right away. S Cicero: Yeah, I think one thing that I can just add on top of this is that he’s really a humble leader. I met him a few times when I was there and now with this live interview…you can smell how much he is interested in knowing and engaging with new ide...more
...this kind of cultural approach, it’s been pulling down inside of the organisation. Because when I when I was there with the Drucker Forum we had this leader there — Mr Wu if I’m not wrong (the leader of the Internet of Food project) — and it’s a huge platform connecting thousands of enterprises which are ...more
...ulling down inside of the organisation. Because when I when I was there with the Drucker Forum we had this leader there — Mr Wu if I’m not wrong (the leader of the Internet of Food project) — and it’s a huge platform connecting thousands of enterprises which are creating these vibrant product solutions to...more
... was refer to the work of Peter Drucker. And this shows me that you have these curious leaders —they’re really humble. And when you become an humble leader, you are empowered, there’s no other way because you understand that it’s not about you, it’s about all the other people that engage in the managemen...more
...as well because there’s always a danger that we romanticise Zhang Ruimin and put him in the same camp of this slightly outdated heroic archetype of a leader. But he has this lovely phrase about creating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of le...more
...er. But he has this lovely phrase about creating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What ...more
...ating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadershi...more
...can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a...more
... experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think th...more
...eadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definiti...more
...lsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that g...more
...gn a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design...more
...ition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadersh...more
...in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadership can really flourish in the organisat...more
...adership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadership can really flourish in the organisation. So, for example, you need just three colleagues to create an enterprise. And then when you decide, your bas...more
... on. I’m curious what that journey has been like for managers because if the if the top management — even if Zhang Ruimin is the kind of progressive leader he is — if he has a COO or someone else in the top management team who is a command-and-control bureaucrat, then it’s not going to work, right? How ...more
...ts — getting the surprises out of whatever happens in order to be more efficient. And what I think that the Haier model is doing is encouraging more leadership imagination throughout the organisation, not just relying on the top. But also, there’s a great deal of locality in it. So as we see, I think one of...more
...don’t know, not enough. And so, my hope is that if there’s a revolution within the workforce, it becomes one about seeking out more autonomy and more leadership. But earlier, Lisa, you mentioned…the Toyota experience in North America. And I think the Toyota experience in North America was sincerely intereste...more
...of accelerator. You end up inside of this accelerator if you are attracted by the culture. You can be out in three months or…if there is this seat of leadership in yourself, and you have an overlap with the culture, you can easily be caught in this rapidly spinning machine and become a leader and create your ...more
...this seat of leadership in yourself, and you have an overlap with the culture, you can easily be caught in this rapidly spinning machine and become a leader and create your micro-enterprise and get your enterprise to IPO in, you know, three years. Like, you know, when you think about these guys creating t...more

Ep. 45 Amy Edmondson on psychological safety and the future of work

...LG: And that’s a good lead into talking about leadership because managers and leaders of course are really influential in creating that environment, that climate of psychosocial safety, or not. And my sense...more
...r is an official job, someone says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management...more
...one says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership wi...more
...cess” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But l...more
...n. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference...more
...p as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your lif...more
...s unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. T...more
...rence, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. To me, the most important thing they can do is just start out by just being more open thems...more
...s… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. To me, the most important thing they can do is just start out by just being more open themselves, being more open ab...more
...ever done, it’s not gonna be done in this little group here either. But the climate can be changed overnight sometimes. Let’s say you have a new team leader — we’ve all had an experience like that — or you join a new team. Boom! Totally different climate. You absolutely feel you can roll up your sleeves a...more
...LG: That’s helpful. You mentioned before about this distinction between management and leadership and that anyone, regardless of their role, can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’...more
...hat’s helpful. You mentioned before about this distinction between management and leadership and that anyone, regardless of their role, can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’s kind of essential that people step into leadership, that it become...more
..., can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’s kind of essential that people step into leadership, that it becomes leaderful. What would you say are some things that if I’m a team member and I’m perhaps used to being a bit passive, or waiting for ...more
... might have. Like somebody’s a little quiet and I see it, so I recognise suddenly it’s possible for me to ask: “Hey, what’s on your mind?” And that’s leadership, because I am doing something that was voluntary to influence someone else in a positive way. The point is, decide you wanna play a bigger game and ...more
... learn from our missteps as well as from our successes. This is gonna be a learning process. Someone decides: “OK, I’d like to exercise a little more leadership at work, make a bigger difference for others, and for the task at work.” Do not expect to get it right every time. Expect to get some of it wrong and...more
...LG: Definitely. I’m curious, as someone that teaches leadership at Harvard, so you’re really with the next generation of leaders, what are you finding is increasingly important in terms of building leadership capa...more
...ches leadership at Harvard, so you’re really with the next generation of leaders, what are you finding is increasingly important in terms of building leadership capacities for the teams and organisations of the future? AE: You know I think it’s this — I don’t know what the right word is, but the kind of emot...more
...d, and not just because I wanna care for you and develop you but because, in fact, the only way great things are gonna happen is if others follow. So leadership is about harnessing the efforts of others to accomplish great things and you can’t harness the efforts of others if you don’t know what makes them ti...more
...LG: I think that’s interesting and I guess that’s why your work is so useful, and I really hope that business schools and people who are doing leadership trainings are practicing it because I think those two polarities — psychological safety, and motivation and accountability — it’s both those things, ...more

Ep. 26 Buurtzorg and the power of self-managed teams of nurses

... other... Chila: Yeah, there is a good communication in the teams. Marian: We give each other feedback. Chila: That's also a problem sometimes in the self-leadership thing. Because if you cannot do that in a team, if it's not safe enough to talk with each other about mistakes or problems or whatever, then you can ...more
...da: But there are a lot of teams that have a lot of problems. Chila: Yes, of course, it is difficult. Marian: It's not possible that you have any one leader, everyone is the same. And when there is in a team a leader, then you have a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems....more
.... Chila: Yes, of course, it is difficult. Marian: It's not possible that you have any one leader, everyone is the same. And when there is in a team a leader, then you have a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems. It's good to have a balance between people who are busy or ...more
...e a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems. It's good to have a balance between people who are busy or quiet, and no leader. Chila: For some people, that's very difficult. They want to control, they have to let go, you have to put it on the table and then everybody can say...more
...nd they want to work in a more self-managed way. What advice would you give them about how to make it work? Chila: Communicate. Marian: Yeah. And no leadership. Everyone has same responsibility, Chila: And honesty. Trust. Transparency. Safety. If you have that together, you can do it. Marian: Everyone has th...more
...o think for themselves, they don't like it. Jolanda: We also had in the other team one person [like that]. She left, she couldn't do this. She needed leadership....more
...oach. That's different to a manager. They support you. They don't say you have to do this or that. But they support you. And that's what you need. No leadership. Marian: Never!...more
...ies in teams to solve. And sometimes they are not to be solved because there are people who don't see that they don't belong there. They want to be a leader and it doesn't work. Lisa Gill: And then what happens? Jolanda: Uh, they still have the problems. And it would be nice if that person who has the pro...more
...pisodes, I really recommend them. I've put the links in the episode description on the website. It's interesting, the advice the ladies give about no leadership. I can't be sure if that's just a language thing. Maybe they meant no management, you know, the kind of stereotypical top-down behaviours that we ass...more
...al top-down behaviours that we associate with managers anyway. In any case, I think my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's d...more
.... In any case, I think my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's dynamic. Its leaderful, I think....more
...ink my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's dynamic. Its leaderful, I think....more

Ep. 55 Frederic Laloux with an invitation to reclaim integrity and aliveness

...e’re not going to have any an obvious answer.” But we’re so trained, certainly as leaders, right? And so the traditional paradigm is that if you’re a leader, you should have all the answers. Otherwise, you know, why are you a leader? One of the most beautiful and inspiring examples for me is is a story o...more
...ly as leaders, right? And so the traditional paradigm is that if you’re a leader, you should have all the answers. Otherwise, you know, why are you a leader? One of the most beautiful and inspiring examples for me is is a story of Ray Anderson from from Interface. Interface, you know, for those who don’t...more
... excited about. And I think that the fears that we have actually never come to pass. I have a good friend in France, Nicolas Hennon, who was a young leader of a fashion brand [Kiabi] and he did amazing things. Like he pushed towards self-management, a huge push for wholeness, very deep listening… And Ki...more
... she’s really excited. But she had this great frustration after reading your book that it seems for this to really work, you need to wait for the top leader to become enlightened, and to be open to these ideas. And she was really frustrated by that and felt like if we wait for that to happen, it’s gonna t...more
...e in our heads and an external collective component, which is all structures and systems. And so when you tell me you had this conversation with the leader, like, “I told people now, go into it, advice process, just do it, and then nothing happens!” And so maybe people just aren’t ready. Like maybe peopl...more
...L Gill: Yeah, I think that’s really useful. And I’m reminded of one of your other videos as well with the leader of a hospital, who was noticing one team, having a lot of extra capacity and other team being overworked. And I think our tendency is often especiall...more
...ed and their activity had come down, so they had too many nurses and other teams were crying out for support, they needed more nurses. And when this leader asked the team that was overstaffed and said to them: “You’re obviously overstaffed, so, you know, please come up with a plan” and and then after a w...more
...a possible intervention is to get representatives from these teams to talk with each other. Because, yeah, the overstaffed team can bullshit you as a leader, but they can’t bullshit the other teams, right? Like the other teams will say: “You are understaffed, and we’re in pain. We need help!” And so in th...more
...t exploring the emerging world of self-managing organisations and radical ways of working. Hosted by Lisa Gill, each episode features a guest thought leader or practitioner offering a unique perspective on new and innovative ways of working. Visit the Leadermorphosis podcast webpage. Listen on Spotify. S...more

Ep. 57 Nand Kishore Chaudhary from Jaipur Rugs on love, collective consciousness and self-management

...ions with you, and I've read articles, you come across as such a presence, you have this real warmth and love that emanates from you in terms of your leadership. And it strikes me that you have this very clear vision of of how this organisation should be, but also how life should be. So you have this remarkab...more
...e. So I'm curious to learn a little bit more about these philosophies that you feel passionate about. Where did these come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up...more
...t more about these philosophies that you feel passionate about. Where did these come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others sta...more
...ney, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership is not an occupation. It is not a job. Leadership is a passion. And actually, it is a calling. In 1990 when I was about to move to Gujarat, to work w...more
...ted. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership is not an occupation. It is not a job. Leadership is a passion. And actually, it is a calling. In 1990 when I was about to move to Gujarat, to work with the tribal community, everybody in my communit...more
... just a matter of three or four years they started to respect me as a guide. It was then I realised that innocence and authenticity is the key for my leadership....more
...For you has it always been easy? I mean, what has your journey been with losing yourself in order to find yourself? Have you had painful moments as a leader and noticing your own blind spots or pitfalls? What has your journey been like? NK Chaudhary: I'm driven by the three things. The first is unconsciou...more