Leadership

This feature only applies to episodes with transcripts, which is a small number at this time.

Alanna Irving on leadership, decisions and money in bossless organisations

...Lisa Gill: Alanna - hello. Let's start with bossless leadership. I know that's one of your interests and areas of specialty, so what does bossless leadership mean to you? Alanna Irving: Bossless leadership is a ph...more
...Lisa Gill: Alanna - hello. Let's start with bossless leadership. I know that's one of your interests and areas of specialty, so what does bossless leadership mean to you? Alanna Irving: Bossless leadership is a phrase that I just started using. The concept of leadership in much our society is really wrappe...more
...ossless leadership. I know that's one of your interests and areas of specialty, so what does bossless leadership mean to you? Alanna Irving: Bossless leadership is a phrase that I just started using. The concept of leadership in much our society is really wrapped up with this hierarchical, positional authorit...more
... of specialty, so what does bossless leadership mean to you? Alanna Irving: Bossless leadership is a phrase that I just started using. The concept of leadership in much our society is really wrapped up with this hierarchical, positional authority. And I'm very interested in what leadership is when you start t...more
...ing. The concept of leadership in much our society is really wrapped up with this hierarchical, positional authority. And I'm very interested in what leadership is when you start to unpick that and start to decouple it from that positional authority idea. And get to the essence of what is that leadership, apa...more
...what leadership is when you start to unpick that and start to decouple it from that positional authority idea. And get to the essence of what is that leadership, apart from that? So I started using the term bossless leadership just to point at that. But I feel like there is no perfect term for what I'm tryin...more
...ple it from that positional authority idea. And get to the essence of what is that leadership, apart from that? So I started using the term bossless leadership just to point at that. But I feel like there is no perfect term for what I'm trying to say because there are so many connotations that everybody brin...more
...rying to say because there are so many connotations that everybody brings with them into these conversations. Hopefully, though, the idea of bossless leadership is weird enough that gets people to look up and go 'oh, wait - what would that be like?'...more
...tulations on the Better Work Together book because I know you were one of the many authors. And I really loved your chapter about growing distributed leadership. I was wondering if you could share some some of the principles that you outlined in that chapter for listeners. That seems a great way into bossless...more
... I was wondering if you could share some some of the principles that you outlined in that chapter for listeners. That seems a great way into bossless leadership and distributed leadership, and how we can start to cultivate that in organisations. Alanna Irving: I started thinking about how to grow distributed ...more
...ld share some some of the principles that you outlined in that chapter for listeners. That seems a great way into bossless leadership and distributed leadership, and how we can start to cultivate that in organisations. Alanna Irving: I started thinking about how to grow distributed leadership when I was worki...more
... and distributed leadership, and how we can start to cultivate that in organisations. Alanna Irving: I started thinking about how to grow distributed leadership when I was working with Enspiral, which is a non-hierarchical network of social entrepreneurs. At the time, there was a cohort of us around the same ...more
...sn't come with this patronizing connotation to how that all works. So I was thinking a lot about that, and I started asking a lot of questions about leadership and coming to terms with the idea that I was good at this leadership thing. And if I could redefine it in a non- hierarchical, non-coercive way then ...more
...o I was thinking a lot about that, and I started asking a lot of questions about leadership and coming to terms with the idea that I was good at this leadership thing. And if I could redefine it in a non- hierarchical, non-coercive way then that leadership thing is what I would do. So I started sticking by bo...more
...coming to terms with the idea that I was good at this leadership thing. And if I could redefine it in a non- hierarchical, non-coercive way then that leadership thing is what I would do. So I started sticking by both of those things and asking questions like, 'well, if there's no pyramid that you're climbing ...more
...estions like, 'well, if there's no pyramid that you're climbing up, if there's no sort of ladder that you're climbing, what does it mean to grow as a leader in this environment?' For those of us who are thinking systemically about growing leadership across the whole network, what does that look like and h...more
... ladder that you're climbing, what does it mean to grow as a leader in this environment?' For those of us who are thinking systemically about growing leadership across the whole network, what does that look like and how do we grow more leaders? How do we grow more leadership among everyone here? Suddenly tho...more
...t?' For those of us who are thinking systemically about growing leadership across the whole network, what does that look like and how do we grow more leaders? How do we grow more leadership among everyone here? Suddenly those questions sparked this whole line of thinking that ended up with this model that...more
...hinking systemically about growing leadership across the whole network, what does that look like and how do we grow more leaders? How do we grow more leadership among everyone here? Suddenly those questions sparked this whole line of thinking that ended up with this model that I developed that has helped me ...more
...ng that ended up with this model that I developed that has helped me to think it through. It basically just talks about the different levels at which leadership grows. The pre-requisite level is about shared power. If you're in an environment where you can't talk honestly about power dynamics and that's not a...more
...ut - if there isn't genuinely a desire for shared power - I think it's like pretty much a non starter. There's no point in trying to grow distributed leadership unless you have some of those prerequisites. If you've got that, then the stage that comes up next is what I call self-leadership. This is all about...more
...ing to grow distributed leadership unless you have some of those prerequisites. If you've got that, then the stage that comes up next is what I call self-leadership. This is all about how I continually grow professionally and personally, how I challenge myself, how self- aware I am. Do I understand how I want to ...more
...d what to do. After that, the level up from there, which is sort of a meta level if you think about it, is leading others. And this is, I think, how leadership is often thought of in wider society. It's about the person who is the leader of a team but in an environment without that coercive positional hierar...more
...if you think about it, is leading others. And this is, I think, how leadership is often thought of in wider society. It's about the person who is the leader of a team but in an environment without that coercive positional hierarchy. So what does that look like? I think it's facilitative leadership, botto...more
...who is the leader of a team but in an environment without that coercive positional hierarchy. So what does that look like? I think it's facilitative leadership, bottom-up leadership, servant leadership, there are lots of terms coined to gesture at that whole area. And that includes things like facilitating g...more
... team but in an environment without that coercive positional hierarchy. So what does that look like? I think it's facilitative leadership, bottom-up leadership, servant leadership, there are lots of terms coined to gesture at that whole area. And that includes things like facilitating good communication, ref...more
...ronment without that coercive positional hierarchy. So what does that look like? I think it's facilitative leadership, bottom-up leadership, servant leadership, there are lots of terms coined to gesture at that whole area. And that includes things like facilitating good communication, reflecting back to the ...more
...blocked, and asking good questions that help other people develop or get to the next level. Then, if you zoom out another meta level there's leading leaders, which is a meta level up from there. How do you grow the skills that allow people to be good, non-hierarchical, facilitative servant leaders. And th...more
...leading leaders, which is a meta level up from there. How do you grow the skills that allow people to be good, non-hierarchical, facilitative servant leaders. And this often involves designing processes that can work without your direct involvement that can scale beyond an individual leader managing it - t...more
...tative servant leaders. And this often involves designing processes that can work without your direct involvement that can scale beyond an individual leader managing it - that everybody can engage with and iterate, change and interact with. I think that is a big part of it. It's also key to just think ca...more
... that everybody can engage with and iterate, change and interact with. I think that is a big part of it. It's also key to just think carefully about leadership development pathways in your network - how do people gain these skills? How can we facilitate more people to have access to these skills? And looking...more
... gain these skills? How can we facilitate more people to have access to these skills? And looking at whether certain kinds of people are ending up as leaders. Do they all look the same or have a similar background? Why might that be? Are some people being left out? Are we not doing a great job with valuing...more
... might that be? Are some people being left out? Are we not doing a great job with valuing diversity and really inviting all of the different kinds of leadership that we're going to need here? Those kinds of questions. And then the final level - which I think of as ecosystem leadership - is a very wide view o...more
... the different kinds of leadership that we're going to need here? Those kinds of questions. And then the final level - which I think of as ecosystem leadership - is a very wide view of how we are progressing our understanding of the very nature of leadership on a much bigger level. How are home networks rela...more
...en the final level - which I think of as ecosystem leadership - is a very wide view of how we are progressing our understanding of the very nature of leadership on a much bigger level. How are home networks relating to each other in ways that increase our collective agency? How can we intersect our work with ...more
...lective agency? How can we intersect our work with the big forces in society that serve to privilege or oppress certain people from opportunities for leadership? These kinds of questions - and cross- pollinating on the widest levels - I think of those things as ecosystem leadership. So, ironically, this non-...more
...ople from opportunities for leadership? These kinds of questions - and cross- pollinating on the widest levels - I think of those things as ecosystem leadership. So, ironically, this non-hierarchical leadership idea ended up in this really hierarchical model. And that's why I chose this metaphor of a flower,...more
... of questions - and cross- pollinating on the widest levels - I think of those things as ecosystem leadership. So, ironically, this non-hierarchical leadership idea ended up in this really hierarchical model. And that's why I chose this metaphor of a flower, when I describe it in the book - and the soil and ...more
... I ended up being able to boil that down to a one-page visual, which I felt really good about. I don't think it's the answer to all of like, 'what is leadership?' It's not about that. But it may be a useful model to hold up and go, 'oh, cool - well, how do I fit into this?' I recently did a workshop on how t...more
...at. But it may be a useful model to hold up and go, 'oh, cool - well, how do I fit into this?' I recently did a workshop on how to go to distributed leadership at a conference. And it was really cool because I talked through the model, and then I just started inviting people on stage to do a fishbowl style w...more
...s well. And it just happened to work out as a facilitator. And it is so nice when this happens. The first person who came up was right on the cusp of self-leadership going into leading others and taking their social entrepreneurship onto a team level. And we talked all about that. And the next person who came up w...more
...ut how their organisation could involve their wider community of users and supporters. And then, finally, we had a couple of really amazing ecosystem leaders that we got to talk to. So, yes, I find that being able to boil this down into such a clear model does help facilitate those conversations to really ...more
...can develop? Some people will develop their technical expertise, and that's perhaps easier to talk about. But this more human, less tangible area of leadership - I think this model gives a really nice, clear, potential map for some of those skills or capacities that people can develop - and to place yourself...more
...ut I was kind of disappointed with this document, because how they were describing the management capacities - like the skills and what it is to be a leader at this level. And this level was really quite oldschool. And it said a lot about supervising and getting involved with technical matters. And so it ...more
.... And it said a lot about supervising and getting involved with technical matters. And so it left me with this question of, well, how can we describe leadership - if not through that mechanistic lens and micromanaging or supervising lens. So I think this offers a really nice alternative. Alanna Irving: I thin...more
...here about the work that we all need to do to work through and let go of the very strong baggage that we are handed in our culture about hierarchical leadership. A lot of people grow up and their families are dictatorships. And they go to school and that's a dictatorship. And then they go to work and that's a...more
...enough money and always feeling like we wanted to help everyone and we couldn't. Plus, going back to some of what we were talking about earlier with leadership development, coming to terms with the idea that I felt like I was outgrowing my pot. I needed to break out and spread my branches and roots a bit mor...more
...'s because of how much love and respect I have for all the people there. And how hugely influential and precious their peer mentorship has been to my leadership development. But also feeling like to actually grow I needed to step out, challenge myself in new ways, take some of the stuff I'd learned and apply ...more
...ry collaborative group who is doing highly experimental, brave stuff - it's dangerous and risky. I was just feeling like I had taken some risks, as a leader in that space and I didn't feel like I was getting the support that I needed. It wasn't because people didn't care or anything like that. It was just...more
...ike a thousand different ways. But when we share the stories and start noticing some of the patterns - I think this is on the level of that ecosystem leadership that I was talking about. It's our collective budget of noticing - where are some of the common patterns? What can we pull together? That could be a...more

Margaret Wheatley on leadership and Warriors for the Human Spirit

...'ve got to, because I know a few years ago, you published your latest book, 'Who Do We Choose To Be?' which was on the 25th anniversary of your book 'Leadership and the New Science' So where are you currently in your thinking and the work that you're doing? Margaret Wheatley: Well, one of my delights has been...more
...e doing? Margaret Wheatley: Well, one of my delights has been to be very open and attentive to what's going on in the world. Now, when I first wrote 'Leadership and the New Science', and it was published in 1992, I was as optimistic as anyone could be that all you have to do to create positive change in the w...more
...blishing that book, which was very well received, I was very well received that it's still now a classic - it's still used in many college classes on leadership. Many University programmes use it. But it didn't change the world. And from that, I realise what it takes to change people, especially those in lead...more
...ship. Many University programmes use it. But it didn't change the world. And from that, I realise what it takes to change people, especially those in leadership, which is my interest, what it takes to change them is not good ideas. There's much more going on - many more dynamics at play, most of them are call...more
...a state of wonder for this beautiful, beautiful planet and cosmos we live in, and the most recent one, 'Who do we Choose to Be?' asks the question of leaders, not whether you're going to adopt a new theory, but whether you're going to wake up to the reality of what's going on, to the complete dismissal or ...more
...smissal or attack, I would say now on life, including people. So we're dealing with organisation, so people is the focus. My own work now is to train leaders to be Warriors for the Human Spirit. And I'll go into on that detail later - but the trajectory, the arc of my work has been initially to wake people...more
...many people were so excited to have choice. So my most recent book, 'Who do we Choose to Be?', is all about choice. It's about consciously using our leadership, not to create change at the level we all aspire to, and that we all want it so desperately, but to choose how we are going to stand up for people, h...more
...andardised processes - you have to take a stand. So it's a different level - it was much more fun to present the choice as choosing a new paradigm of leadership which would give great results and engage people to now, the choices, how are we going to stand up against these times? So I just want to give the su...more
...but the subtitles are the path, which is first we have to the first subtitle is 'facing reality', we do have to face reality. The second is 'claiming leadership'. So it's a conscious decision. I'm going to be a leader for this time. And then the third is 'restoring sanity' because truly, this is a devastating...more
... first subtitle is 'facing reality', we do have to face reality. The second is 'claiming leadership'. So it's a conscious decision. I'm going to be a leader for this time. And then the third is 'restoring sanity' because truly, this is a devastatingly crazy, insane time....more
...way of being, a new way of thinking - they might be intrigued by order without control as a basic opportunity, but they're in these organisations and leaders positions where they're being driven to increased efficiencies, shortened time spans incredible levels of distraction, and work becoming more and mor...more
... doctors don't want to be doctors any longer. So we've crushed these professions by this economic greed-infused paradigm. And it is really destroying leaders as well as all possibilities. So I'm not interested in - I no longer hold the possibility that we can create change at that level of organisations o...more
... I created Warriors for the Human Spirit as a training programme which requires real dedication and diligence and a strong community, because being a leader these days is quite terrible. Even if, I mean, what I've keep saying is, the leaders who knew what to do and had great results with high participatio...more
... dedication and diligence and a strong community, because being a leader these days is quite terrible. Even if, I mean, what I've keep saying is, the leaders who knew what to do and had great results with high participation, community engagement, self organised organisation, they knew what works - even the...more
... this. I think I mean it a little bit differently. We have to change ourselves. But we have to change ourselves in order to serve more effectively as leaders. And a lot of people are just focused on, 'well, I'm just going to change myself'. My whole purpose of being right now is to create leaders who can s...more
...tively as leaders. And a lot of people are just focused on, 'well, I'm just going to change myself'. My whole purpose of being right now is to create leaders who can stay, leaders who can stay present, leaders who are not overwhelmed by anger and aggression and frustration, leaders who won't get ill and ju...more
... a lot of people are just focused on, 'well, I'm just going to change myself'. My whole purpose of being right now is to create leaders who can stay, leaders who can stay present, leaders who are not overwhelmed by anger and aggression and frustration, leaders who won't get ill and just withdraw, leaders w...more
...sed on, 'well, I'm just going to change myself'. My whole purpose of being right now is to create leaders who can stay, leaders who can stay present, leaders who are not overwhelmed by anger and aggression and frustration, leaders who won't get ill and just withdraw, leaders who will not become cynical and...more
...g right now is to create leaders who can stay, leaders who can stay present, leaders who are not overwhelmed by anger and aggression and frustration, leaders who won't get ill and just withdraw, leaders who will not become cynical and, and just disappear on us. So I'm really working with leaders and the wh...more
..., leaders who can stay present, leaders who are not overwhelmed by anger and aggression and frustration, leaders who won't get ill and just withdraw, leaders who will not become cynical and, and just disappear on us. So I'm really working with leaders and the whole concept of leadership is, are you willing...more
...ustration, leaders who won't get ill and just withdraw, leaders who will not become cynical and, and just disappear on us. So I'm really working with leaders and the whole concept of leadership is, are you willing to commit to staying - not necessarily in the same job, but staying available for what's comi...more
...ill and just withdraw, leaders who will not become cynical and, and just disappear on us. So I'm really working with leaders and the whole concept of leadership is, are you willing to commit to staying - not necessarily in the same job, but staying available for what's coming, what's needed already, the large...more
...coming, what's needed already, the large numbers of people who are beside themselves with anxiety and fear, who are suffering terribly. Those are the leaders that I'm working with. And that's the level of change that's possible....more
..., disciplined, self-sacrificing - knowing that they, whatever the hardships of the times, they want to serve. So that's the quality of shifting one's leadership opportunities, from self-interest to service is just that clear to me. And most people won't do it. So I'm not interested in masses, I haven't been i...more
...eds to be done. And those are the people that I'm supporting now. And they're growing in numbers, I must say, I speak to many people, about restoring leadership as a noble profession. And I'm finding great resonance with people who think - oh, I could use my position, my influence my power, to do meaningful w...more
... that needs doing. And I'm really heartened by the numbers of people who respond to this, this call now - a summons to 'how are you going to use your leadership?' The old ways, the old aspirations are no longer valid. We cannot change these large systems, even though we know how to do it. What the methods and...more
... stay, who've already been activists. These are not people who are suddenly getting religious about, oh, I should do something. These are experienced leaders of all ages, but with a predominance, so far, of older people and older women who want to continue to make a contribution. It's now - we're attractin...more
...e warrior community. It's true for all of us. How do we deal with these levels of grief, rage, now, frustration. Like why don't people, why don't our leaders do what needs to be done? Well, they're not going to - and so, why are so many people suffering at the hands of the greedy? And why is the planet pus...more
...em, because we are in the grips of this overbearing 1984 kind of machine of Big Brother. So we all got excited when some corporations, some corporate leaders started learning to meditate. One of them was the CEO of Monsanto. And at the time, my colleague was in a meditation group in which he was part of th...more
... know it is they know it is. So I, the where I take the principle of self organisation - very fundamentally important to me, is when I'm working with leaders, in the midst of all this destruction, you can create an island of sanity, maybe. At least you have to try. And what I mean by being an island is it ...more
... lust and aggression are kept at bay as much as possible. I've seen this happen. It requires enormous strength, courage and commitment on the part of leaders. But within that island of sanity than everything I've ever believed or written about self organisation how to motivate people, how to use participat...more
...motivation, engagement, creativity, if we can create these islands of sanity. I am finding, and let me just say one thing about sanity, I define sane leadership, as the unshakable confidence that people can be creative, generous, and kind. And the operative phrase there is can be, that's the work of leadershi...more
...eadership, as the unshakable confidence that people can be creative, generous, and kind. And the operative phrase there is can be, that's the work of leadership. So we're reintroducing, we're recreating conditions for organisation through everything the new sciences taught us. But we're recreating the conditi...more
...air here. There is despair. And I know now, because I've been doing this for years, that this will increase my motivation and dedication to work with leaders in the way I'm doing. But pushing away the world or getting seduced by hope, getting ambushed by hope - so you see something that inspires you and yo...more
...e level. But it becomes much smaller, much more immediate and direct. So my website has a lot of things on it, because this is my work now - creating leadership, this spiritual warriorship. So it's suggestive may provide some antidotes to your despair, it may increase your despair. But keep going, keep going....more

Gary Hamel on busting bureaucracy for good
...me, stakeholders of all sorts, recognising that bureaucratic model is toxic to organisational vitality, innovation growth, are going to start to hold leaders accountable and say, 'how are you doing? Is this going up or going down?'...more
...istory the forces of change usually didn't start at the top, they started somewhere else. So I think it will take a certain kind of self-enlightened leader to say, yes, we're going to do this. I think it means for individuals- as well as an organisation- that you need a personal migration path to think t...more
... means for individuals- as well as an organisation- that you need a personal migration path to think through. Well, what does it mean to succeed as a leader in an organisation where power now is almost entirely divorced from position? Those three things - once the motivation is there (which I think in man...more
... who understands this needs to happen - and I think there quite a few progressive ones out there - they are often stymied by the next layer or two of leaders who have a lot of emotional equity invested in the bureaucratic model. It took the Western car companies - Volkswagen, and the rest of the German com...more
...ose skills are required. So I think there is unlearning and relearning that has to take place. Most of all, we have to relearn what it means to be a leader. More books are written about leadership than any other business topic, there are more blogs on it - every organisation has some leadership developme...more
...here is unlearning and relearning that has to take place. Most of all, we have to relearn what it means to be a leader. More books are written about leadership than any other business topic, there are more blogs on it - every organisation has some leadership development program. But I think mostly the word w...more
...means to be a leader. More books are written about leadership than any other business topic, there are more blogs on it - every organisation has some leadership development program. But I think mostly the word we use - leader - is complete bullshit in organisations. Because the only way you can be sure you're...more
...y other business topic, there are more blogs on it - every organisation has some leadership development program. But I think mostly the word we use - leader - is complete bullshit in organisations. Because the only way you can be sure you're having a conversation about leadership is to start with an assum...more
...hink mostly the word we use - leader - is complete bullshit in organisations. Because the only way you can be sure you're having a conversation about leadership is to start with an assumption that you have no positional power. You have no authority, you have no title, you have no resources, and you have no po...more
...lition together, to vision cast or whatever you need to do to move a group of people from A to B. But as long as you confuse bureaucratic power with leadership, it's very difficult to know, are we having a conversation about your capability as a leader or your ability to wield the big stick of bureaucratic p...more
... But as long as you confuse bureaucratic power with leadership, it's very difficult to know, are we having a conversation about your capability as a leader or your ability to wield the big stick of bureaucratic power? As anybody can tell you who's been in organisations at all, there are a lot of people i...more
...r your ability to wield the big stick of bureaucratic power? As anybody can tell you who's been in organisations at all, there are a lot of people in leadership positions who are really not leaders. And they would be voted off the island if people had the choice. And so companies - like Haier in China is one ...more
... bureaucratic power? As anybody can tell you who's been in organisations at all, there are a lot of people in leadership positions who are really not leaders. And they would be voted off the island if people had the choice. And so companies - like Haier in China is one the world's largest domestic applianc...more
... famous material science company that makes cortex and a thousand other things - these companies give teams the right to choose an unchoose their own leaders. Because the thinking is that the only way you really know whether there's a leader in this job is whether people get to tell you that or not. Otherw...more
...e companies give teams the right to choose an unchoose their own leaders. Because the thinking is that the only way you really know whether there's a leader in this job is whether people get to tell you that or not. Otherwise, you'll have people who have power, but really have never developed the skills o...more
.... Otherwise, you'll have people who have power, but really have never developed the skills of leading. So I think we're going to have to rethink our leadership curriculum. It's just ironic to me that many companies will have a stratified Leadership Development Program. So if you're at this level, you go to t...more
...s of leading. So I think we're going to have to rethink our leadership curriculum. It's just ironic to me that many companies will have a stratified Leadership Development Program. So if you're at this level, you go to the Emerging Leaders Program, and then you go to the Advanced Leaders Program. But it's li...more
... It's just ironic to me that many companies will have a stratified Leadership Development Program. So if you're at this level, you go to the Emerging Leaders Program, and then you go to the Advanced Leaders Program. But it's like, no - anybody can exercise that. And so teaching people a new set of leadersh...more
...have a stratified Leadership Development Program. So if you're at this level, you go to the Emerging Leaders Program, and then you go to the Advanced Leaders Program. But it's like, no - anybody can exercise that. And so teaching people a new set of leadership skills - how do you create and own your own pe...more
... Leaders Program, and then you go to the Advanced Leaders Program. But it's like, no - anybody can exercise that. And so teaching people a new set of leadership skills - how do you create and own your own personal point of view about the future that is compelling for other people? How do you learn to build a ...more
...Lisa Gill: Yes, absolutely. Can you share some of the insights from your Twelve Steps program or what advice you would give to leaders who are trying to detox? Gary Hamel: I think the first thing in any recovery program - one of the steps - is that you have to do a fearless moral inv...more
...Lisa Gill: And in terms of employees then - because I often find I hear stories from leaders when they tried to initiate a transformation in their company to exaggerate and they declare self management - and people sort of lay in wait, and th...more
...ggerate and they declare self management - and people sort of lay in wait, and they're still not stepping into their new authority or initiative. And leaders tell me how frustrating this is. So I also feel like there's some unlearning to do from an employee perspective, because we've been so trained to be ...more
...doms. I may not fully remember. But you have the freedom to set strategy, you have the freedom to hire and fire the people on your team including the leader, and you have the freedom to decide on how you distribute rewards. So that's a lot of freedom. Having said that, more than half of their compensation...more
...s and the skills to succeed, that you're not throwing them in the deep end, that at least for a time there's there's a safety net. I was talking to a leader in local government in the UK, and this individual wanted to do something as simple as increasing the discretionary spending limit for frontline folk...more
...a very interesting experiment that's been going on over the last couple of years at Michelin - you know, the 100 year old industrial company, a world leader in tyres. It started as a very experimental thing with one upper level leader - Bertrand Batterman is his name. He had run a factory in China, he had...more
...rs at Michelin - you know, the 100 year old industrial company, a world leader in tyres. It started as a very experimental thing with one upper level leader - Bertrand Batterman is his name. He had run a factory in China, he had an ex military career in the French military. But he started wondering, why c...more
...It wasn't a top down program, because we don't really know how to do this. And for the first year, they had very little communication across these 39 leaders because they really wanted them to struggle and find their own way, rather than try to prematurely converge on one model. And what was very interesti...more
...ey really wanted them to struggle and find their own way, rather than try to prematurely converge on one model. And what was very interesting is that leaders had variety of approaches to this. Many leaders ended up having people on their team shadow them for a day or two or three and said, 'tell me what ar...more
... own way, rather than try to prematurely converge on one model. And what was very interesting is that leaders had variety of approaches to this. Many leaders ended up having people on their team shadow them for a day or two or three and said, 'tell me what are you doing that the team could do better?' And ...more
...are you worrying about calling the maintenance crew?' And so on. And very quickly, they found there are a lot of things they could do better than the leader and the leader found that his or her job got better because now they are really there to support people, to build them, to solve problems. I am not b...more
...g about calling the maintenance crew?' And so on. And very quickly, they found there are a lot of things they could do better than the leader and the leader found that his or her job got better because now they are really there to support people, to build them, to solve problems. I am not being a babysitt...more
...iduals saying yeah, we can take this power. And if we sometimes screw it up, that's fine - we're going to learn our ways with this. And same with the leaders themselves. So, in any organisation, this is going to take a while. And anybody who tells you that you can accomplish this in less than a year or two...more
... so I think the spirit that is almost entirely lacking in our organisations is a spirit of activism. And it's kind of ironic, because every corporate leader will say well, we need to change faster. So my question is, okay, well have you taught people how to be activists? How to have an idea, build a coali...more

Amy Edmondson on psychological safety and the future of work

...LG: And that’s a good lead into talking about leadership because managers and leaders of course are really influential in creating that environment, that climate of psychosocial safety, or not. And my sense...more
...LG: And that’s a good lead into talking about leadership because managers and leaders of course are really influential in creating that environment, that climate of psychosocial safety, or not. And my sense is that, especially today, p...more
...ays it’s not radical. But in practice, my feeling is it’s more challenging. Perhaps because we’re not practiced in doing it. So for those managers or leaders who are thinking: “Psychological safety sounds good, but how do I do that?”, what are you finding is most helpful in terms of supporting them in that...more
...me things I think that anybody can do to create a more psychologically safe environment. But first I wanna say, you started out by saying managers or leaders and I think being a manager is an official job, someone says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what yo...more
...nk being a manager is an official job, someone says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level o...more
...r is an official job, someone says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management...more
...one says: “You’re a manager, you’re gonna manage those people or that process” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership wi...more
...cess” and that’s what you do. But leaders, I think leadership is a function. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But l...more
...n. Leadership is an activity that can be done by anybody. We often think of leadership as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference...more
...p as maybe even a higher level or form of management, but that’s leadership with a capital ‘L’, maybe, it’s the CEO or the business unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your lif...more
...s unit manager. But leadership with a small ‘l’ is the small things you do to make a difference, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. T...more
...rence, to influence others… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. To me, the most important thing they can do is just start out by just being more open thems...more
...s… Even a subordinate can exercise leadership that makes your life at work better. So what managers can do is exercise more leadership, and exercise leadership over the culture or the climate. To me, the most important thing they can do is just start out by just being more open themselves, being more open ab...more
...epartment and that team and this location over there all have different levels of psychological safety, in part because it’s so greatly influenced by leaders in the middle. And so the climate is something that’s a bit more ephemeral, like the weather. It’s what I feel I can do right here. And it’s gonna be...more
...ever done, it’s not gonna be done in this little group here either. But the climate can be changed overnight sometimes. Let’s say you have a new team leader — we’ve all had an experience like that — or you join a new team. Boom! Totally different climate. You absolutely feel you can roll up your sleeves a...more
...LG: That’s helpful. You mentioned before about this distinction between management and leadership and that anyone, regardless of their role, can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’...more
...hat’s helpful. You mentioned before about this distinction between management and leadership and that anyone, regardless of their role, can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’s kind of essential that people step into leadership, that it become...more
..., can step into leadership of some kind. And I’m thinking about in a self-managing team or organisation, it’s kind of essential that people step into leadership, that it becomes leaderful. What would you say are some things that if I’m a team member and I’m perhaps used to being a bit passive, or waiting for ...more
... might have. Like somebody’s a little quiet and I see it, so I recognise suddenly it’s possible for me to ask: “Hey, what’s on your mind?” And that’s leadership, because I am doing something that was voluntary to influence someone else in a positive way. The point is, decide you wanna play a bigger game and ...more
... learn from our missteps as well as from our successes. This is gonna be a learning process. Someone decides: “OK, I’d like to exercise a little more leadership at work, make a bigger difference for others, and for the task at work.” Do not expect to get it right every time. Expect to get some of it wrong and...more
...LG: It strikes me that, as you said, the systems piece and the human piece are both important, and it’s also the case that it’s not just leaders that are responsible for creating this climate of psychological safety, but it’s also about the non-leaders, if I can use that term, stepping up in a...more
...LG: Definitely. I’m curious, as someone that teaches leadership at Harvard, so you’re really with the next generation of leaders, what are you finding is increasingly important in terms of building leadership capa...more
...LG: Definitely. I’m curious, as someone that teaches leadership at Harvard, so you’re really with the next generation of leaders, what are you finding is increasingly important in terms of building leadership capacities for the teams and organisations of the future? AE: You kn...more
...ches leadership at Harvard, so you’re really with the next generation of leaders, what are you finding is increasingly important in terms of building leadership capacities for the teams and organisations of the future? AE: You know I think it’s this — I don’t know what the right word is, but the kind of emot...more
...pter parents and being praised all the time in ways that didn’t use to be as fashionable, so I worry sometimes. But I think the coming generation of leaders does recognise that the challenges that lie ahead are huge. So as long as you can get beyond the “It’s all about me” mindset, the writing is on the w...more
...all that this is gonna take everything you’ve got. And it’s not all about you, but it is all about others and I think that’s fundamentally the job of leaders is to be other-oriented, and other-focused, and not just because I wanna care for you and develop you but because, in fact, the only way great things...more
...d, and not just because I wanna care for you and develop you but because, in fact, the only way great things are gonna happen is if others follow. So leadership is about harnessing the efforts of others to accomplish great things and you can’t harness the efforts of others if you don’t know what makes them ti...more
...LG: I think that’s interesting and I guess that’s why your work is so useful, and I really hope that business schools and people who are doing leadership trainings are practising it because I think those two polarities — psychological safety, and motivation and accountability — it’s both those things, ...more
...talking long enough that you know I don’t mean a playbook like a recipe for a cake, it won’t be that kind of playbook. But if an organisation and its leaders have decided “Let’s go on a journey”, then what’s the best advice we can give them and what does that look like? What does the journey look like and ...more

Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero on Haier and the entrepreneurial organisation

... aspects? S Cicero: Well, it’s hard to just talk about one thing. For me personally, I think Haier is a special organisation probably because of the leadership that it has. Not just when you compare it with other traditional Western organisations, but also in China. This mix of thinking that Zhang Ruimin has...more
...ings. And so for me, it’s a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to talk about how you change large, complex organisations in mature industries. And the leadership. The leadership, of course is extraordinary. So those two things, I think are what differentiates. ...more
... me, it’s a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to talk about how you change large, complex organisations in mature industries. And the leadership. The leadership, of course is extraordinary. So those two things, I think are what differentiates. ...more
...L Gill: Thank you. Let’s, let’s talk a little bit about the leadership then because I mean, Zhang Ruimin has a legacy already at Haier — 35 years or so I think he’s been in the organisation — and this is now the sixth ev...more
...e’s been in the organisation — and this is now the sixth evolution or reinvention, I believe, of the organisation. So, it takes a very unique kind of leader I think, to navigate that and I’ve read and heard about him being this incredibly well-read person but he also strikes me from just the videos that I...more
...hen testing them, putting them to work right away. S Cicero: Yeah, I think one thing that I can just add on top of this is that he’s really a humble leader. I met him a few times when I was there and now with this live interview…you can smell how much he is interested in knowing and engaging with new ide...more
...this kind of cultural approach, it’s been pulling down inside of the organisation. Because when I when I was there with the Drucker Forum we had this leader there — Mr Wu if I’m not wrong (the leader of the Internet of Food project) — and it’s a huge platform connecting thousands of enterprises which are ...more
...ulling down inside of the organisation. Because when I when I was there with the Drucker Forum we had this leader there — Mr Wu if I’m not wrong (the leader of the Internet of Food project) — and it’s a huge platform connecting thousands of enterprises which are creating these vibrant product solutions to...more
...up on the stage and the first question, the first thing he did was refer to the work of Peter Drucker. And this shows me that you have these curious leaders —they’re really humble. And when you become an humble leader, you are empowered, there’s no other way because you understand that it’s not about you,...more
... was refer to the work of Peter Drucker. And this shows me that you have these curious leaders —they’re really humble. And when you become an humble leader, you are empowered, there’s no other way because you understand that it’s not about you, it’s about all the other people that engage in the managemen...more
...ad… than your personal contribution. And I think you can recognise this because at the same time, you have these teams that are so engaged with their leaders. Most of most of all, of course, Zhang Ruimin — everybody respects him. But at the same time when you see an interview and you read people saying, “W...more
...as well because there’s always a danger that we romanticise Zhang Ruimin and put him in the same camp of this slightly outdated heroic archetype of a leader. But he has this lovely phrase about creating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of le...more
...er. But he has this lovely phrase about creating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What ...more
...ating a system where everyone can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadershi...more
...can be a CEO of themselves. And I’m interested in what your experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a...more
... experience is of leadership more generally at Haier and how leadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think th...more
...eadership emerges. What does leadership look like elsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definiti...more
...lsewhere in the organisation? How is leadership encouraged? What does that look like? Do they have leadership training? Or do you design a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that g...more
...gn a system and leadership emerges? S Cicero: Well, I think there is an interesting aspect, which is the constraint definition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design...more
...ition. And there’s a lot of leadership in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadersh...more
...in Haier that goes through these architectural aspects. So for example, I think a lot of Zhang Ruimin’s actual leadership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadership can really flourish in the organisat...more
...adership is an organisational design leadership. So he has been designing the constraints together with his board members over the years, so that his leadership can really flourish in the organisation. So, for example, you need just three colleagues to create an enterprise. And then when you decide, your bas...more
... on. I’m curious what that journey has been like for managers because if the if the top management — even if Zhang Ruimin is the kind of progressive leader he is — if he has a COO or someone else in the top management team who is a command-and-control bureaucrat, then it’s not going to work, right? How ...more
...like a simplified version that you can apply. **So: creating micro-enterprises (profit or loss); setting leading goals (being above average and being leaders in the market, becoming the number one); and unlocking people’s potential. **This is the simplified version that you can, you can use. And of course...more
...ts — getting the surprises out of whatever happens in order to be more efficient. And what I think that the Haier model is doing is encouraging more leadership imagination throughout the organisation, not just relying on the top. But also, there’s a great deal of locality in it. So as we see, I think one of...more
...don’t know, not enough. And so, my hope is that if there’s a revolution within the workforce, it becomes one about seeking out more autonomy and more leadership. But earlier, Lisa, you mentioned…the Toyota experience in North America. And I think the Toyota experience in North America was sincerely intereste...more
...of accelerator. You end up inside of this accelerator if you are attracted by the culture. You can be out in three months or…if there is this seat of leadership in yourself, and you have an overlap with the culture, you can easily be caught in this rapidly spinning machine and become a leader and create your ...more
...this seat of leadership in yourself, and you have an overlap with the culture, you can easily be caught in this rapidly spinning machine and become a leader and create your micro-enterprise and get your enterprise to IPO in, you know, three years. Like, you know, when you think about these guys creating t...more

Jos de Blok on Buurtzorg and the virtues of humanising, not protocolising

...ing the structure of a manager telling them what to do, or appraisals or whatever, that it also feels quite challenging and intimidating. So you hear leaders saying, "We've created a self-managing system, why is no one stepping in?" So there are all sorts of pain points for organisations that are transform...more
...self as well. So what are your thoughts and what have you learned in trying to support these people? Jos de Blok: Yeah, like you just said about when leaders say: "We created a self-organised organisation" or something like that, and people are not stepping in, then you can ask yourself, what was the start...more
...les in an organisation? And if you do that in a positive, consistent way that it shows also, you have to show what it means also in behaviour. So the leaders have to use the language. If you say it's another paradigm, you want to create something which is based on another paradigm, and that's sometimes rea...more
...e. If you say it's another paradigm, you want to create something which is based on another paradigm, and that's sometimes really difficult. Then the leaders have to show new behaviour. So instead of telling people what the vision and the strategy is, you have to have a dialogue about it. So how do you loo...more
...to really involve them and enroll them in that process, instead of, as you say, revealing some grand plan. And I'm also glad you said the thing about leaders, because I can really see that it's painful for them in a lot of ways that this paradigm up till now, you know, these people who have done MBAs and h...more
...t there, but that transformation, as you say, is a big one. And I'm wondering what you've learned or what your reflections are in terms of what helps leaders in that transformation? Jos de Blok: What helps? Yeah, I think the very basic thing is to start talking with people instead of telling them things. I...more
...art talking with people instead of telling them things. It's these expectations (and that's also the difficulty) these expectations from managers and leaders in the positions they have, are creating a behaviour that people are easily giving their opinions on everything. So because you are a manager in this...more
...that sense, nurses are very important for society on the whole, so they can heal the system. There are some reflections. I don't believe in all these leadership courses; I think it's bringing more and more negative things than positive. So it's all the same - all talking about leadership and how important is...more
...believe in all these leadership courses; I think it's bringing more and more negative things than positive. So it's all the same - all talking about leadership and how important is leadership and now I call it being humble; how can you put yourself in a role that people see who you really are as a person, no...more
...courses; I think it's bringing more and more negative things than positive. So it's all the same - all talking about leadership and how important is leadership and now I call it being humble; how can you put yourself in a role that people see who you really are as a person, not as a leader, but as a person? ...more
...w important is leadership and now I call it being humble; how can you put yourself in a role that people see who you really are as a person, not as a leader, but as a person? And you know, it's too much about techniques and not too much about the things you should learn. I think you should unlearn a lot o...more
...e or less, (I call it) cohort characteristics. So if you say the soft side of you - I believe that the soft side of people who have been managers and leaders for a long time, has been underdeveloped. So for example, just showing your emotions: crying when you should cry, talking about your doubts, your fea...more
... example, just showing your emotions: crying when you should cry, talking about your doubts, your fears - these kinds of things. No, you have to be a leader, strong leaders - confident. You can't be confident about everything. There's a lot of fear in all these things. So just say it's there, so how can w...more
...showing your emotions: crying when you should cry, talking about your doubts, your fears - these kinds of things. No, you have to be a leader, strong leaders - confident. You can't be confident about everything. There's a lot of fear in all these things. So just say it's there, so how can we deal with it? ...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah I want to add a reflection on what you said about not believing in leadership training, or what I hear to mean kind of traditional leadership training in the sense of like, this is what leadership is and and theory and blah, bl...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah I want to add a reflection on what you said about not believing in leadership training, or what I hear to mean kind of traditional leadership training in the sense of like, this is what leadership is and and theory and blah, blah, blah. In my experience, what I find does help is creating s...more
...ou said about not believing in leadership training, or what I hear to mean kind of traditional leadership training in the sense of like, this is what leadership is and and theory and blah, blah, blah. In my experience, what I find does help is creating some spaces where people can experience and share and be...more
...ally agree with you that on some of these topics, trainings are very useful. But what I was referring to was that what I see most of the time is that leaders are talking with leaders and I believe that this language is a very important thing - the language you use, the words you use should be connected wit...more
...on some of these topics, trainings are very useful. But what I was referring to was that what I see most of the time is that leaders are talking with leaders and I believe that this language is a very important thing - the language you use, the words you use should be connected with what you're doing and t...more
... and the people who are doing it. I had a discussion with a researcher who said not so long ago that nurses should use more of the language of their leaders because otherwise they can't explain what they need. And I said: "But that's the other way around. I think leaders should try to understand, (at leas...more
... use more of the language of their leaders because otherwise they can't explain what they need. And I said: "But that's the other way around. I think leaders should try to understand, (at least they should understand), the people - how they feel about their daily work. That's the beginning". Language for m...more
...feel about their daily work. That's the beginning". Language for me feels like when I did the MBA education, I thought it helped me to understand how leaders and managers think. But on the other hand it's strange that when they are all using the same language, that there is not any space anymore for someth...more
...ig change, in my opinion. And then language comes very close. But I hear a lot when our nurses are in a meeting, when there are a lot of managers or leaders that they say: "We really don't understand what they're talking about", and when you ask the managers what they are really talking about, I think tha...more
... from different perspectives, together it creates new insights. And one of my observations is that if you look at management trainings, and also this leadership trend, from a management perspective, creates kind of a monoculture, using the same patterns, using the same words all over the world, though it feel...more

Frederic Laloux with an invitation to reclaim integrity and aliveness

...hugely liberating. I think there is a real cost that comes with us pushing these questions away all the time.** **Right? This cognitive dissonance of leaders and organisations whose children are marching for Fridays for Future but they’re continuing the stuff that they do and more and more I see now that t...more
...or Future but they’re continuing the stuff that they do and more and more I see now that their children, the friends of their children, look at these leaders and say, “I don’t understand.” Can we have open and honest conversations about this? And I think that the flip side of that conversation is a real ri...more
...n aliveness that comes when we finally dare to speak these things and not numb ourselves constantly, not push them them away. And I’ve certainly seen leaders who had the courage to be honest with themselves, I’ve really seen that in action. There’s an aliveness that comes, there’s something liberating abou...more
...n into the fabric of our of our economic system. And so of course, we’re not going to have any an obvious answer.” But we’re so trained, certainly as leaders, right? And so the traditional paradigm is that if you’re a leader, you should have all the answers. Otherwise, you know, why are you a leader? One ...more
...e’re not going to have any an obvious answer.” But we’re so trained, certainly as leaders, right? And so the traditional paradigm is that if you’re a leader, you should have all the answers. Otherwise, you know, why are you a leader? One of the most beautiful and inspiring examples for me is is a story o...more
...ly as leaders, right? And so the traditional paradigm is that if you’re a leader, you should have all the answers. Otherwise, you know, why are you a leader? One of the most beautiful and inspiring examples for me is is a story of Ray Anderson from from Interface. Interface, you know, for those who don’t...more
...y? And it brought up a fascinating conversation, where I asked them about their plan B. I’ve since had this conversation with quite a few people and leaders when we talk about stuff that really matters, but they don’t have an answer for you. And I think it’s such an important conversation, such a liberati...more
... excited about. And I think that the fears that we have actually never come to pass. I have a good friend in France, Nicolas Hennon, who was a young leader of a fashion brand [Kiabi] and he did amazing things. Like he pushed towards self-management, a huge push for wholeness, very deep listening… And Ki...more
... she’s really excited. But she had this great frustration after reading your book that it seems for this to really work, you need to wait for the top leader to become enlightened, and to be open to these ideas. And she was really frustrated by that and felt like if we wait for that to happen, it’s gonna t...more
...L Gill: Yeah, I think this is the shift that is so exciting to me. And it’s liberating, I imagine, for leaders, as you say, that you don’t have to have the answers to these questions. That actually, you’ll be so amazed and surprised if you’re really transparen...more
...in service to some deep yearning that we have, or some clarity around like, “I will no longer do this.” But it’s a juicy conversation I’m having with leaders. It’s like: ...more
...n and working in this kind of way and I want everyone now to be involved in making decisions” and so on…That even then a common complaint I hear from leaders is: “I gave them permission! Why is no one stepping in? Why is no one taking initiative or making decisions — do people just need to be told what to ...more
...e in our heads and an external collective component, which is all structures and systems. And so when you tell me you had this conversation with the leader, like, “I told people now, go into it, advice process, just do it, and then nothing happens!” And so maybe people just aren’t ready. Like maybe peopl...more
...L Gill: Yeah, I think that’s really useful. And I’m reminded of one of your other videos as well with the leader of a hospital, who was noticing one team, having a lot of extra capacity and other team being overworked. And I think our tendency is often especiall...more
...hospital, who was noticing one team, having a lot of extra capacity and other team being overworked. And I think our tendency is often especially for leaders to notice, okay, this isn’t happening, or here’s a problem and to try to fix it to try to help. It’s well intentioned, but often, there’s a totally d...more
...ed and their activity had come down, so they had too many nurses and other teams were crying out for support, they needed more nurses. And when this leader asked the team that was overstaffed and said to them: “You’re obviously overstaffed, so, you know, please come up with a plan” and and then after a w...more
...a possible intervention is to get representatives from these teams to talk with each other. Because, yeah, the overstaffed team can bullshit you as a leader, but they can’t bullshit the other teams, right? Like the other teams will say: “You are understaffed, and we’re in pain. We need help!” And so in th...more
...ms will say: “You are understaffed, and we’re in pain. We need help!” And so in this case, that was all that was needed. It’s a it’s a big shift for leaders, I think, to go from me solving a problem to me orchestrating the architecture for the problem to solve itself. ...more
...t exploring the emerging world of self-managing organisations and radical ways of working. Hosted by Lisa Gill, each episode features a guest thought leader or practitioner offering a unique perspective on new and innovative ways of working. Visit the Leadermorphosis podcast webpage. Listen on Spotify. S...more

Michael Y. Lee on lessons from researching self-managing organisations

...managing organisations, that radical decentralisation of authority really applies to everyone in the organisation: from the bottom to the most senior leaders and former executives in the organisation....more
...res and processes so that we don't slip back into all power hierarchies. But we'll come back to holacracy in a moment, because I wanted to talk about leadership as well, because I saw that you have been leading a two day program at Harvard on collaborative leadership and building organisations for the future....more
...n a moment, because I wanted to talk about leadership as well, because I saw that you have been leading a two day program at Harvard on collaborative leadership and building organisations for the future. So what are your thoughts on leadership in self-managing organisations when there are no bosses? What does...more
...ou have been leading a two day program at Harvard on collaborative leadership and building organisations for the future. So what are your thoughts on leadership in self-managing organisations when there are no bosses? What does leadership look like and how can we cultivate the kind of leadership skills that a...more
...and building organisations for the future. So what are your thoughts on leadership in self-managing organisations when there are no bosses? What does leadership look like and how can we cultivate the kind of leadership skills that are needed in these kinds of organisations? Michael Y. Lee: In our course we ta...more
...r thoughts on leadership in self-managing organisations when there are no bosses? What does leadership look like and how can we cultivate the kind of leadership skills that are needed in these kinds of organisations? Michael Y. Lee: In our course we talk about using three different metaphors. One is the metap...more
...hael Y. Lee: In our course we talk about using three different metaphors. One is the metaphor of 'the Architect' - and so we think of one role of the leader as building the right structures and processes to support self-management, to support empowerment. And I think that this is based on or challenges th...more
...t getting collective work done, so that is something that these structures can support. The second metaphor is that of 'the Conductor'. And so for a leader, I think, in a self-managing organisation, they have to realise and sort of adjust to the fact that rather than there being a boss, subordinate relat...more
...g professionals together so that their work can work together nicely as a whole. And then the last, I think, metaphor is that of 'the Coach'. So the leader in self-managing organisations, it's very much about creating a learning environment where people feel safe to experiment, make mistakes, but also th...more
...e is accountability, but it's very much different from a boss. So I think that those three metaphors are the way I think we think, and I think about leadership in a self-managing structure: Architect, Conductor or Coach, and in many ways, I think, going back to my response to the earlier question, these are,...more
...aches to management, even in hierarchies aren't working and have probably never worked. And so I think these are in many ways, the same principles of leadership and of management that are applicable in any organisation, but I think particularly so in self-managing structures....more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, I liked those three metaphors and I'm also thinking that these ideas about leadership, as you say, apply to any kind of organisation, not just a self-managing organisation, and yet it's so fascinating to me that these aren't really new...more
...hat are your thoughts on how we can support people as someone who's coming from the education world, for example? How can we train and develop future leaders of organisations with these leadership skills, given that it's not happened yet? Michael Y. Lee: Yeah, I think in many ways the work that you're doin...more
...support people as someone who's coming from the education world, for example? How can we train and develop future leaders of organisations with these leadership skills, given that it's not happened yet? Michael Y. Lee: Yeah, I think in many ways the work that you're doing is obviously hugely important - I thi...more
...ve consequences that many of these tendencies can have in groups and in organisations. And so, I think one thing for organisations to think about and leaders, (goes back to the leaders architect metaphor): how do you create the structures and practices and processes to help counter some of the negative ten...more
...f these tendencies can have in groups and in organisations. And so, I think one thing for organisations to think about and leaders, (goes back to the leaders architect metaphor): how do you create the structures and practices and processes to help counter some of the negative tendencies that humans have be...more
...ganisation, or working in a hierarchical structure, we know that these are the types of qualities that are good for teams, that are part of effective leadership. And we know also, I think, from many of the wisdom traditions, that this is also probably just good for individual happiness as well, and individual...more
...from these experiments in new ways of organising and realise that actually, we can bring those into any organisation? So when I talk to managers and leaders it's like: "you could do this tomorrow. You could actually adopt many of these practices tomorrow in your team and organisation without ever calling ...more
...f organisations that hierarchical, but really viewing it as a continuum that is really, I think, relevant and important for every organisation, every leader to think about....more

Edwin Jansen on how people adopt self-management at Fitzii
...t feedback or is in some conflict with someone and then their deepest fear around how they operate in the world is triggered. And then we like to say leadership development is a team sport, so the whole team gathers around that person and says, "We got you, you don't need to be afraid of this thing". And so t...more
...es because they're no longer afraid that they need to take care of themselves, that the team will take care of them. And I think Simon Sinek's book: 'Leaders Eat Last' is a great example and description of what that kind of leadership looks like. And then the final stage is the 'Habit' stage - the behavio...more
...ves, that the team will take care of them. And I think Simon Sinek's book: 'Leaders Eat Last' is a great example and description of what that kind of leadership looks like. And then the final stage is the 'Habit' stage - the behavioral stage, and you never get out of this stage, it's a constant thing - in fa...more
...r and you can regress into older bad habits. And so that's a constant behavioral change, where you're constantly trying to improve what we call 'Teal Leadership Behaviors'....more
...say at our company: "We get people done through work, not work done through people". So in many ways, the working together is the fodder for your own leadership development and your own inner work. And we have found that when people don't get through stage two, or if it's a particularly rocky path through the...more
...eve these skills are the most important skills to learn and it's a real shame, a tragedy almost, that we're not spending any time in schools teaching leadership skills and personal development. But it's a good question. I would say that our feedback practice has been the biggest accelerator to building these ...more
...is there to give feedback in all directions. So that's really interesting that you touch on that. I'm curious then how else have you transitioned the leadership culture in Fitzii for you and for others who were formerly managers? How has that process been? Edwin Jansen: Well, I like to say that going Teal is ...more
...ure in Fitzii for you and for others who were formerly managers? How has that process been? Edwin Jansen: Well, I like to say that going Teal is like leadership development on steroids. And I, my former life, was a manager for many years who was lucky enough to go through all of these different leadership dev...more
...ike leadership development on steroids. And I, my former life, was a manager for many years who was lucky enough to go through all of these different leadership development programmes and courses and reading business books and whatnot, and I learned more in the first couple of years not being the boss than I ...more
... what they really think, to ask the big, hairy questions. And so for me, and I think for anyone that's a manager and transitioning into being a Teal leader, or self-managing contributor, you have to be proactive in addressing your perceived power and authority: you got to make fun of yourself, you have t...more
...o was at Fitzii, when we went into self-management about a year and a half ago or so, she moved over into the parent company and has been a fantastic leader there to help them to organise and to start moving in this direction. And it's been such a fantastic success at Fitzii, that they decided a few month...more
...n. And it's been such a fantastic success at Fitzii, that they decided a few months ago to actually do GDM: they did a Generative Decision Making the leadership team, and they decided to move towards adopting what they call a 'Teal Operating System', so they found that to be a useful analogy. And then we've j...more
...that's what we've noticed. Like Laloux says: "The level of consciousness of the group can only go as high as the level of consciousness of the senior leader of the group". And so we just we need more Heart-based leaders out there, and we need them spread out amongst all of the smaller teams and once that'...more
...sciousness of the group can only go as high as the level of consciousness of the senior leader of the group". And so we just we need more Heart-based leaders out there, and we need them spread out amongst all of the smaller teams and once that's the case, then all the rest of it will take care of itself....more
...ealthy place, a place of love and not from a fearful place? So we're actually playing around and testing a number of different assessments right now: leadership framework assessments, integral assessments, emotional intelligence assessments. Then this idea of leadership development being a team sport, it's s...more
...er of different assessments right now: leadership framework assessments, integral assessments, emotional intelligence assessments. Then this idea of leadership development being a team sport, it's so fascinating because someone, let's say, goes through a comp advice process and they are proposing a $10,000 i...more
...d-dating, were giving each other feedback, and just the feeling of connection and care of all of these very diverse people was just amazing. Then the leadership development, the personal growth that I have seen people go through is nothing short of amazing. And then the boring business stuff: the business str...more
...nd she said "I know you don't want me to feel that way. So I'm telling you". This was shocking to me because I'd always thought that that was a good leadership trait that I had, which was (in my mind) I was being persuasive and compelling, not controlling and domineering. And she said "Yeah and I think if yo...more

Aaron Dignan on being complexity conscious and people positive

...e over and started with a blank sheet of paper and created or modified some really incredible ways to work. And we are sort of called to do that - as leaders, founders, managers, team members. We're called to change the way we work. So that's the core concept of it. It obviously, gets into the nitty gritt...more
... keep our heads down. We're just pushing through to the next thing. Another part of this, of course, is that there's a big ego component to this and leaders and founders and managers have a lot of their identity wrapped up in being the hero or being the micromanager being the detail-oriented one or being ...more
...it's the aquarium. And I think that this chameleon nature that we talked about earlier is part of this. So yeah, if I want you to be a more inclusive leader, I could talk your ear off about it. And we could do a lot of coaching or even therapy, and we could get really deep, I could do unconscious bias tra...more
...time, and I don't think you can have one without the other. I think it is a chicken and egg problem. In many cases, you can't start the work until a leader has had some awakening and realise they want to share power. And that often comes from personal work from a walkabout or some personal crisis. So tha...more
...Lisa Gill: Yes, for sure. And what about your own personal perspective? Because, you know, you're a founder and a leader yourself, and The Ready is growing. What have been some of the challenges for you? And what have you learned personally about leadership and working ...more
... a founder and a leader yourself, and The Ready is growing. What have been some of the challenges for you? And what have you learned personally about leadership and working in this way with others? Aaron Dignan: This has been an interesting one for me. Because The Ready is the first time I've done this from s...more
...'re not quite there in this other area. And so I think I keep waiting for the moment when I can say, like, I'm done, you know, I don't have to be the leader anymore. And now it'll just work. But the reality is that does take some time and some care and some nurturing. And then, just in general - this ide...more
...ore. And now it'll just work. But the reality is that does take some time and some care and some nurturing. And then, just in general - this idea of leadership. Understanding, in what context someone is a leader, and what it means to have leadership in the system that is emerging all the time. I think that t...more
...es take some time and some care and some nurturing. And then, just in general - this idea of leadership. Understanding, in what context someone is a leader, and what it means to have leadership in the system that is emerging all the time. I think that there's still a lot of bias and narratives that we te...more
...d some nurturing. And then, just in general - this idea of leadership. Understanding, in what context someone is a leader, and what it means to have leadership in the system that is emerging all the time. I think that there's still a lot of bias and narratives that we tell ourselves about leadership being a ...more
... to have leadership in the system that is emerging all the time. I think that there's still a lot of bias and narratives that we tell ourselves about leadership being a permanent state. And so everybody's like, is this person a leader? Is that person a leader? As opposed to saying, is this person a leader in ...more
...there's still a lot of bias and narratives that we tell ourselves about leadership being a permanent state. And so everybody's like, is this person a leader? Is that person a leader? As opposed to saying, is this person a leader in this situation? And what about in another situation when they're not? So ...more
...as and narratives that we tell ourselves about leadership being a permanent state. And so everybody's like, is this person a leader? Is that person a leader? As opposed to saying, is this person a leader in this situation? And what about in another situation when they're not? So we've started playing wit...more
...leadership being a permanent state. And so everybody's like, is this person a leader? Is that person a leader? As opposed to saying, is this person a leader in this situation? And what about in another situation when they're not? So we've started playing with ideas of thinking about different skill domai...more
... they have mastery in that space. And so it creates leaderships, rather than this, like, well, this person's been here for five years. So they're the leader so I'll ask them about everything. There are definitely people who are very 'senior' at The Ready that you should not ask about certain things. And ...more
... page - even though maybe we wouldn't have talked about it that way before. Or sometimes we'll have a large enough group of like, you know, a top 40 leader group or something. We'll have three different subsets of that group, each with their own deck, who do the work and then compare. And the comparison ...more
...rage outcomes as our goals for change, we're just whittling off all the rich complexity that's going on. Whereas the cards will show us - this set of leaders thinks it's this, this set of leaders thinks it's that. It's not a competition, they're both right. And so then, how do we deal with that? How do we ...more
... we're just whittling off all the rich complexity that's going on. Whereas the cards will show us - this set of leaders thinks it's this, this set of leaders thinks it's that. It's not a competition, they're both right. And so then, how do we deal with that? How do we address the system in its richness? Wh...more

Ruth, Taryn and Philippa from Mayden, a health tech company that’s Made Without Managers

...ent focus that they saw people could be brilliant in this space. And I just want to honour them in this space. Because I think if it wasn't for their leadership, and them holding that space and going, you guys, we believe in you, you can do this, and we believe you have something to contribute. And we're goin...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, I love that. I'd love to talk a bit about leadership. I think there are a lot of misconceptions when people start exploring self-managing teams that there, you know, should be no leadership, there shoul...more
... a bit about leadership. I think there are a lot of misconceptions when people start exploring self-managing teams that there, you know, should be no leadership, there should be no leaders. And I want to talk about this in two parts, because I know in Mayden, that you do still have directors. So we can talk a...more
...k there are a lot of misconceptions when people start exploring self-managing teams that there, you know, should be no leadership, there should be no leaders. And I want to talk about this in two parts, because I know in Mayden, that you do still have directors. So we can talk a little bit about that. But ...more
...e I know in Mayden, that you do still have directors. So we can talk a little bit about that. But also, I think it's really interesting to talk about leadership as a kind of activity, or co-leadership if you like, something that people can embody whatever their role is in the organisation. So I'd like to know...more
...was involved in the book, Dave Bould, around what progression at Mayden looks like, and within that he unearthed some really interesting insight into leadership at Mayden. So I think, as you say, there's definitely two parts to this question. And Taryn sort of picked up and sowed those seeds around how we loo...more
...rector is allowed to do in the legal entity. So we make sure that we acknowledge that as part of the role of the director. And then in terms of that leadership space, what we've recognised as a self-managing organisation is that absolutely anybody could be leading and have leadership behaviours, across the b...more
...nd then in terms of that leadership space, what we've recognised as a self-managing organisation is that absolutely anybody could be leading and have leadership behaviours, across the business, depending on the needs of the work, the needs of the business, the aspirations, and where that individual is in term...more
...ey want to bring. Some of the insight that Dave and his colleague identified when they did a piece of work around this is a lot of the behaviours for leaders and leadership within Mayden is about supporting other people to shine, supporting other people to develop, to listen, to challenge, to champion. And...more
...ring. Some of the insight that Dave and his colleague identified when they did a piece of work around this is a lot of the behaviours for leaders and leadership within Mayden is about supporting other people to shine, supporting other people to develop, to listen, to challenge, to champion. And it's really ex...more
...take forward and really explore further. I don't know if Ruth might have more to add as well? Ruth Waterfield: Yeah, I think for me, you talked about leadership, it's really helpful to think about influence. Everybody has the ability to influence those around them, what you say, how you act, it matters. Peopl...more
...opinion and their ideas are just as valuable and might be a completely new perspective. So by removing that kind of title, and automatic authority or leadership, you allow everybody to have a voice. But yes, there are still leaders. It's just recognised maybe in a different way, and maybe more of respect, and...more
... perspective. So by removing that kind of title, and automatic authority or leadership, you allow everybody to have a voice. But yes, there are still leaders. It's just recognised maybe in a different way, and maybe more of respect, and how you how you interact with each other, and how you build up these r...more
...d developers, how do they feel that they will they will be a developer, not a senior developer? How do they feel about that? What's their approach to leadership? Like we said before, some of those questions about approach, and how will they get on not? We're not looking to hire just like ourselves, but we're ...more
... and no process is going to take that away necessarily. It might increase people's confidence, but I think that can be the kind of lure of the heroic leader as well, sometimes that you want to help people and that's not always helpful or empowering in a sense as well. Philippa Kindon: Yeah, I have an exa...more

Buurtzorg and the power of self-managed teams of nurses
... other... Chila: Yeah, there is a good communication in the teams. Marian: We give each other feedback. Chila: That's also a problem sometimes in the self-leadership thing. Because if you cannot do that in a team, if it's not safe enough to talk with each other about mistakes or problems or whatever, then you can ...more
...da: But there are a lot of teams that have a lot of problems. Chila: Yes, of course, it is difficult. Marian: It's not possible that you have any one leader, everyone is the same. And when there is in a team a leader, then you have a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems....more
.... Chila: Yes, of course, it is difficult. Marian: It's not possible that you have any one leader, everyone is the same. And when there is in a team a leader, then you have a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems. It's good to have a balance between people who are busy or ...more
...e a problem. And when you have only busy people, then you have big problems. It's good to have a balance between people who are busy or quiet, and no leader. Chila: For some people, that's very difficult. They want to control, they have to let go, you have to put it on the table and then everybody can say...more
...nd they want to work in a more self-managed way. What advice would you give them about how to make it work? Chila: Communicate. Marian: Yeah. And no leadership. Everyone has same responsibility, Chila: And honesty. Trust. Transparency. Safety. If you have that together, you can do it. Marian: Everyone has th...more
...o think for themselves, they don't like it. Jolanda: We also had in the other team one person [like that]. She left, she couldn't do this. She needed leadership....more
...oach. That's different to a manager. They support you. They don't say you have to do this or that. But they support you. And that's what you need. No leadership. Marian: Never!...more
...ies in teams to solve. And sometimes they are not to be solved because there are people who don't see that they don't belong there. They want to be a leader and it doesn't work. Lisa Gill: And then what happens? Jolanda: Uh, they still have the problems. And it would be nice if that person who has the pro...more
...pisodes, I really recommend them. I've put the links in the episode description on the website. It's interesting, the advice the ladies give about no leadership. I can't be sure if that's just a language thing. Maybe they meant no management, you know, the kind of stereotypical top-down behaviours that we ass...more
...al top-down behaviours that we associate with managers anyway. In any case, I think my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's d...more
.... In any case, I think my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's dynamic. Its leaderful, I think....more
...ink my interpretation, or maybe my belief in general is that there is leadership in self-managing teams, but it's a chosen kind of leadership. It's a leadership where we all step into our own authority in different ways and it's dynamic. Its leaderful, I think....more

Nand Kishore Chaudhary from Jaipur Rugs on love, collective consciousness and self-management

...ions with you, and I've read articles, you come across as such a presence, you have this real warmth and love that emanates from you in terms of your leadership. And it strikes me that you have this very clear vision of of how this organisation should be, but also how life should be. So you have this remarkab...more
...e. So I'm curious to learn a little bit more about these philosophies that you feel passionate about. Where did these come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up...more
...t more about these philosophies that you feel passionate about. Where did these come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others sta...more
...ophies that you feel passionate about. Where did these come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership i...more
...hese come from? How has your view of leadership been shaped? NK Chaudhary: Leadership is a journey, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership is not an occupation. It is not a job. Leadership i...more
...ney, leaders are not selected. They are not nominated. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership is not an occupation. It is not a job. Leadership is a passion. And actually, it is a calling. In 1990 when I was about to move to Gujarat, to work w...more
...ted. Leaders transpire and they emerge. They rise up in times of hardships when others stay seated. Leadership is not an occupation. It is not a job. Leadership is a passion. And actually, it is a calling. In 1990 when I was about to move to Gujarat, to work with the tribal community, everybody in my communit...more
... just a matter of three or four years they started to respect me as a guide. It was then I realised that innocence and authenticity is the key for my leadership....more
...For you has it always been easy? I mean, what has your journey been with losing yourself in order to find yourself? Have you had painful moments as a leader and noticing your own blind spots or pitfalls? What has your journey been like? NK Chaudhary: I'm driven by the three things. The first is unconsciou...more
...we can only create the new future when we are mindful. So I think consciousness will be the way to bring that self-management. The more conscious the leaders, the more consciousness, self-awareness [there will be in the] staff - it will make a difference. Because the future lies in the present. So the more...more

Lisa Gill and Mark Eddleston celebrate 50 episodes of Leadermorphosis

...l I ended up, kind of by accident, in a learning and development, like a professional training company in London. And that was my portal really, into leadership development and organisational culture. And because it was new to me, I started just learning about it kind of furiously: consuming books and going t...more
...rough that, I discovered the more radical side of things and came across companies at the time like HCL, that were inverting traditional paradigms of leadership and I got excited about all that stuff. And then I decided to leave the corporate world and set up my own company with a very broad vision of trying ...more
... and then my consulting and coaching work started to move in that direction more specifically. And then I met Karin Tenelius the co-founder of 'Tuff Leadership Training' in January 2016 and learned about how she had been helping transform companies to become self-managing since the 90s, and she and I started...more
...rite a book together about the stories of ten or so companies she'd transformed and in the process of that I became a trainer with her company: 'Tuff Leadership Training'. And so nowadays it's become my world, entirely. It took a while to transition into that but I was always interested in how can we tap into...more
... need to change relationally? How do we need to change the way we relate to each other? Particularly those of us who are managers or who have been in leadership positions, but also those of us who haven't - that there are these like shifts that need to happen in two directions. So using the case studies of th...more
...f guests: so not just people from Europe and North America, not just people who are white, not just people who are academics, not just people who are leaders of organisations, but people on the frontline, people who are doing it - to have a real mix. And so it's been really wonderful to do some more diggin...more
...till an emphasis on development. But that's also really hard to do. So no one has cracked this relational human stuff, mindset stuff - how to be as a leader, how to create that paradox of how to create environments where everyone is powerful, and and yet, at the same time, allowing for natural leadership ...more
...as a leader, how to create that paradox of how to create environments where everyone is powerful, and and yet, at the same time, allowing for natural leadership and hierarchies to emerge -that's really tricky and there's no magic pill for that. So I think that's also been something that's been confirmed time ...more
... - you're self-managing, and it's funny: For organisation A, could well be fatal for organisation B and I think that's quite frustrating, perhaps for leaders when they're chatting to people working in this space when it's: "Okay what do we do? How do we do it?" And we respond with: "Well, that depends." S...more
...ource that have followed on from the book. And he has some really wonderful questions for people to reflect on, particularly if you're a founder or a leader around: what's your personal purpose? Why is this interesting and important to you? And I also think if you aren't someone who has decision-making po...more

Margaret Heffernan on how to act our way out of the status quo trap

...ink about this blindspot, we have - the place from which we are operating. Especially from talking to a lot of people in organisations - particularly leaders - who are in theory up for experimenting or transforming. And they overestimate their ability to be empowering or up for the change that's going to c...more
...ng about their business. Every one of them always complains, and then they give me all the reasons why they can't do anything. But actually, you show leadership by trying, even if you don't succeed. I had a fantastic conversation with a young woman on Saturday. We were coming back from a conference together ...more
... and maybe getting used to the pleasure of complaining, where one always feels sort of self righteous as a victim rather than able to take risks as a leader....more
...Lisa Gill: Yes - I have learned that there seem to be two paradigms of leadership, or of working together. One is like kind of parent-child paradigm kind of traditional management paradigm. And there is a sort of safety and securit...more
...rama though. They get fixed with a lot of really good listening, and quite a lot of subtle negotiation. But because I work very closely with a lot of leaders, I do see this happening quite frequently. So I think the story that we tell ourselves - which is if I speak up, I'd get clobbered - it's an alibi f...more
...t happens if you do nothing, is nothing. What happens to your self esteem? Nothing very good. What happens to your notion of yourself as some kind of leader? Well, it lacks evidence. So I think you have to look at those two stories and think, which story do I want to be mine?...more
...Lisa Gill: Yes, that's very powerful. This makes me think about leaders in particular. What can we do to help create that kind of climate of psychological safety that is going to make people more likely to take that risk ...more
... 300,000 or 500,000 pounds worth of debt, I can't afford to be out of work for a day. So I think the first thing I would say is, it's important as a leader to recognise what you can and can't influence. And if you're in that kind of environment, which we may find ourselves in sooner than we think, people...more

Anna Elgh on self-managing teams and shifting conflicts at Svenska Retursystem

...companies that I have worked with. But I was really frustrated; well, what should we really do now. And it was actually at that time that we met with Leadership Training and they felt like a very good partner, because we were speaking the same language, and what I appreciated very much from their side was the...more
...g Tuff and seeing what that partnership could look like. When you started that next phase or chapter of the journey, I guess you could say, with Tuff Leadership Training, what were you hoping for in terms of what support were you looking for to help you on this journey? Anna Elgh: I think what we were looking...more
...bout waiting for everyone to step into responsibility. And you mentioned before about patience. And I think a lot of times I talked to CEOs or senior leaders who are frustrated there are pockets of the organisation that are really on board and moving really fast. But then there are teams and parts of the o...more
...ut working climate and how important that is and how you can shift it together? Anna Elgh: We have adopted the methods that we have learned with Tuff Leadership Training about "putting the moose heads on the table" and also everyone has gone to training, some have not yet done it, but we have a cooperation ov...more
...her two teams) that they're still self-managed, that they haven't reinstalled the manager. How do you see your role as CEO now and I guess, what does leadership look like generally in SRS now? Anna Elgh: It's fantastic because I've released and gotten so much more time and I think that I'm actually spending ...more
... also from the ones who you decided you wanted to get feedback from. So that's why we're also doing a lot of feedback training now together with Tuff Leadership Training and that's good because we're really getting everyone to train on this during quite a short period. I think that would help us on the journe...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, that's really inspiring. I'm wondering, Anna, perhaps people that you've spoken to - other CEOs or leaders have asked you this, but for people listening who are on their own journey towards self-organised teams or towards more Lean or Agile ways of working...more

Peter Koenig on source, money and consciousness
...of putting it that what you're describing, these three roles that the source plays, I think it can conjure up images again of the kind of charismatic leader or the sort of heroic leader, which is a sort of old paradigm now, a bit out of date I think. And actually, what Tom said is that it's more of a vuln...more
...e describing, these three roles that the source plays, I think it can conjure up images again of the kind of charismatic leader or the sort of heroic leader, which is a sort of old paradigm now, a bit out of date I think. And actually, what Tom said is that it's more of a vulnerable visionary, that there ...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, and I think that's been a key piece for me is understanding the inner work. I came across a term recently 'leader smithing', which I quite liked. 'Leader smithing', like, if you're a blacksmith, you know, you would always been in this lifelong process of honing y...more
...h, and I think that's been a key piece for me is understanding the inner work. I came across a term recently 'leader smithing', which I quite liked. 'Leader smithing', like, if you're a blacksmith, you know, you would always been in this lifelong process of honing your craft and this real commitment to co...more
...e things in life, etc., that comes to a limit at some point also. And then we turn towards what these other levels which you could describe, 'servant leadership,' (or they're given different kinds of terms), when purpose comes really into view, people start then to look, see the limit and come to look at what...more
...now how to create a culture of accountability that doesn't look like the things that we're trying to reject, we don't know what power or authority or leadership looks like, if not the things that we're trying to move away from. And so, there's a lot of people feeling stuck and confined I think, and I find tha...more
...nd you're ready to open it up to other people in your organisation. So that's what I would give as input to somebody looking at it. I've had business leaders come into my money seminars, from large organisations, and originally, rather naively, I thought, the next step is they'll be bringing this work into...more

Keith McCandless and Henri Lipmanowicz on acting your way into a new kind of organising with Liberating Structures

... dialogue about what are they going to do when they get back or whatever it is. And this was very revealing this story, just the interaction - so the leaders were doing their normal thing, you know - what is it that you need from us? What is it that you need from us? And you can see that all the frontline ...more
...ot up the courage and said, “Well, really, we don't need anything from you. Nothing. I think we just got what we need in this workshop”. And then the leaders sort of went - oh, my God, what's my job now? I'm no longer needed to be the boss. I no longer need to be the provider, the boss, the father, the pat...more
...sa Gill: Yeah. On that note, I think if we take a really practical example like strategy, which traditionally is, you know, a group of chosen few top leaders, maybe in a dark cave, working on a strategy, and then they kind of come out and 'ta-da' here it is. Keith McCandless: Get rid of the dark cave - I c...more
...ad and their faculty designer. We did a good job. And you know, they were getting started, and I'm there and just loving the energy of the school and leadership and students. We're about 90 minutes into a three day shindig workshop. And the two students who are with me, they get a feel for 1-2-4-All, and Impr...more

Bernadette Wesley on bridging inner and outer transformation

...n to really live it'. And I've experienced that myself over a number of years with amazingly supportive people and all of the kinds of supportive co- leadership structures. And still it's takes so much courage and practice from me. And I'm only just touching the very beginnings of what it's like to really be ...more
...an experiment. This is all a co-creation. So when creating your peer learning space, if it's within an organisation - and we also do them with senior leaders who have something in common, like all CTOs or something like that - that's one premise, that you have a center of gravity together. It's different ...more

Pasteur Byabeza on transitioning to self-management at Davis College

...llege, and Akilah, was invited to transition into holacracy. That's how we disbanded the global cancer. We did away also with any formal or informal leadership roles or titles. So there are no more departments. All my colleagues were invited to work within one or more circles. So that's the process. ...more
...ed in hierarchies and is about yielding to authority and seeing all subordinates yielding to authority. You look at the African chiefs - traditional leaders who have absolute power - and I would say sometimes they're totalitarians, using the tools to manage and control people sometimes. I would say it was...more

Jorge Silva on horizontal structures and participatory culture at 10Pines

...Lisa Gill: I'm curious to know, what have you as a co-founder learnt in terms of being a leader in a company with no bosses? What have you found challenging? What have you found surprising? Jorge Silva: Well, yeah, it's an interesting question.....more
... alone - I need to validate my ideas and to validate things with others and to have a better approach or a complementary view of the problem. So as a leader, I think that it's really important to... have the opinions and the involvement of others. So I think that this is one of the things that I have lear...more

Beetroot’s founders on purpose, self-management, and shocking people with trust

...ying to do, but also what sort of would feel right to continue doing further on. And along with that, this was also when we came in contact with Tuff Leadership and with various organisations in this sort of community, which made it feel more real for us; it's actually possible, there are other examples of co...more
... feel trust with that. If to talk about this skill set that is more challenging in which we are constantly working with and partly together with Tuff Leadership also, is the feedback culture, in how to be able to when there is not a manager, (who gives you feedback, and you're successful if the manager is hap...more